Re: [Leica] a few Leica announcements

[Photovilla@aol.com]

<<

I hate to be a doomsayer, but this is a sign of a company in trouble. 

When a competitor is engineering a camera which will really undercut 

their sales, they react to it by making the same camera they have 

been making for years and putting a different finish on it. All of 

you who talk about Leica as the pinnacle of picture making tools that 

can't be improved with updating please explain how it's picture 

making abilities are improved by a new paint job?


Tom>>

Tom,

Hi again. I'm glad to see someone out there is actually talking Leica on the 
list! I think you have hit on something that turns out to be at the very crux 
of something that I find perplexing in speaking with Leica owners on a daily 
basis. "What is a collector and whom are the real users."

I see the black paint M6 a little differently than you and other 
"doomsayers." It seems to me that Leica might actually be LISTENING to what 
their users are asking for...

I have sold many hundreds of Leica items in the past 10 years and I have don't
 think I have ever found _anyone_ asking for them to make an auto-focus M6 
(like the G2) or a new "swiss-army-knife" rangefinder camera like the Konica, 
or even the aperture priority CLE "thing-a-mabob" though that might be a 
little more on target in my mind. (This is not true of the R8, but R is a 
different story for a different post.)

What I HAVE heard is literally dozens of M owners get "sloppy-drunk" at the 
mention of is "black paint" anything. If you think Leica owners don't "care" 
about the finish...you are dead wrong.

Personally, I'm not a wiz-bang camera guy... I don't like the super AF, 
million pixel, double backlight compensation, silence-of-the-lambs night 
vision type cameras. I see enough pixels on my computer screen to cure me of 
those needs... I'm not sure, but I don't think that I'm that atypical of a 
Leica owner.

I admit, without shame, that if I had an extra $10k sitting around I might 
just have a few of these exotic platinum, black, green, etc etc. cameras in 
my personal collection. :-> 

I settled for a Titanium M6 and a black HM...and they do fine for me now. Why 
Titanium? Well, I guess it is a little different than the normal finish and 
yet still I was able to buy it for just about the same price as a regular M6 
at the time. (not true today from what I see of Titanium prices.) 

BTW, if you have a current M6 painted by one of the good restoration 
specialists it runs anywhere from $400-$1000 typically...perhaps further 
justifying paying the price Leica offers it at.. to have it factory done and 
be part of a limited edition that will most likely stay at or increase in 
value no matter what happens to Leica.

I have not been able to justify keeping those exotic 'painted" rare cameras 
when I have acquired them from time-to-time, but I do not discount the "added 
value" of paint.  If they were affordable -as think most Leica owners will 
find this one to be- who knows, I might just have. 

I've seen many the pro-photographer in NYC wearing an "exotic" or "rare" 
camera around there neck...sometimes perhaps just to be seen with it...in the 
past 12 years After all it shoots the same, right? BUT, not every collector 
puts the camera in a case. They are not fine china after all...they are still 
cameras, black, titanium or gold.

A seldom spoken Leica secret is that most of the Leica collectors are 
photographers too! (In fact, many cameras that I feared to take from the 
display case to the shipping box because of the price tags, were eventually 
USED by the "collectors" that purchased them and have the extra funds to 
indulge there fancy. ) Do I hold a grudge that I could not afford this 
indulgence as well? Perhaps their reckless actions were making these cameras 
even more rare and even less attainable for me? 

Well, yes and no. I took me a little time to get over that, but eventually I 
realized that it really doesn't work quite that way. The camera market is a 
_market_ like any other, and things go in and out of fashion, so I might get 
my chance yet. ;-) Even Microsoft stock goes DOWN sometimes.

In my experience, there are not MANY collectors of Leica cameras who JUST put 
them in a case and wait for them to increase in value. I may catch sh*t for 
saying this...but it is this strange theme perpetuated mainly by people who 
consider themselves NOT to be collectors yet may own many Leica bodies 
themselves. My point: collectors and shooters are not mutually exclusive sets 
as it is often visualized. In fact, they are usually the SAME people. <ah 
ha...I knew I was getting at something>

Now, if my Leicas, Hassies, Horseman SW and Wisner expedition look great as 
well as work well, then all the better. I neither love nor shun any 
title...photographer, collector, dealer, speculator, whatever...I am all of 
the above. I have published a book of my photography and been published in 
national newspapers, I have a bunch of cameras in a case that are not for 
sale, (some that I used and some that I will never use.) I have a bunch of 
cameras for sale that I will never use and even more new equipment that I 
don't even open until I copy the serial number down as it is packed off in 
the mail. Does it really matter or change the price of a camera what anyone 
does with it? I doubt it. If the market was that easy to predict and 
manipulate there would be more people doing just that.

If there is anyone who reads this list that is above the occasional "no film 
fondle" of their Leica gear then I am surprised. ;-)  Is a Leica simply a 
tool to these people? You don't have to be a collector to experience "pride 
of ownership" in a way that is not going to apply to your lawn mower, pool 
vacuum  or snow blower...  Usually right after someone says to me "I am a 
photographer, not a collector" the next thing they say is "...well is it 
really Mint or just kind-of Mint" Is it chrome or black? Sounds like they 
care about what it looks like to me!

This isn't a "rant" against you or anyone on the list so don't take it that 
way...I'm just curious to understand where this dichotomy of collectors and 
users are and how their "black paint" fetish is a symbol of Leicas immanent 
demise...or a camera market that somehow discriminates against those who 
shoot.

My only wish was that the black paint M6 was a permanent addition to the 
line...not just a special edition. Maybe also a "classic" M6 in this finish 
as well. We'll see, maybe that will come to pass? I think enough people 
"care" to justify it, but I could be wrong.

Will I buy the M6 black paint for my personal collection? I doubt it, but 
only because it is somewhat redundant to what I already own...five years ago 
I might have...these days my "collecting" has slowed down quite a bit.

I think the black paint M6 will be a success...it hits Leica owners where 
they live. I'm not saying that is wrong or right or trying to "hype" it as 
being great or bad, I'm just noticing the pulse of a market and I hear the 
want out there.

...and I have already put my money where my mouth is by ordering a bunch for 
resale. <g>

Just my $.02 or $2,795.00 as it were so don't take it too seriously.<g>

later,
Rich