Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1999/06/24

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Subject: Re: [Leica]More .. XTOL capacity & time
From: Christer Almqvist <chris@almqvist.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:45:30 +0000

Robert:

Thank you for your note. Based on practical experience, I am not convinced
by your argument relating to increasing development times with Xtol.
Perhaps some LUG member has asked Kodak about this and can tell us what
they answered. Otherwise I will ask them.

With regard to the tanks, it seems we are talking about different tanks. In
fact I have three of that type, two marked Kaiser and one marked Jobo
although they are exactly the same, except for size. Seems there is a bit
of badge engineering going on here and that a Jobo is not always a true
Jobo. Mine has only one capacity marked for each specific numer of films,
and the instruction leaflet does not mention anything except hand
agitation. Otherwise I agree with you.

>Christer:
>
>You have two things a little confused.  The Kodak reccomendations for
>increasing development time is based upon using the same one litre batch
>with stock solution and returning the used developer to the container.
>Doing it this way, it starts to deplete and sucessive rolls need more
>developing time.  You will see similiar directions for Ilford ID-11 and
>Microphen and other developers when used as stock solutions and then being
>reused.
>
>The second problem is with the Jobo tanks when using them on a rotary
>developer such as their CPE-2.  The tank has two capacities marked on it,
>rotary, and traditional hand inversion.  Using hand inversion the two reel
>tank as a capacity of 485ml, and 260 for rotary.  If you put the tank on a
>CPE-2 with a jobo-lift, the excess of developer over 260ml will pour out
>when you tip the tank sideways to mount it.  If you do not use a lift, but
>the magnet drive and a lid on the tankd, you will be able to process with
>the 400ml in the tank.
>
>Regards,
>
>Robert
>
>
>At 12:14 PM 6/24/99 +0000, you wrote:
>>>The current Xtol datasheet is April 1998-J109.
>>>
>>>On the matter of how much active ingredient to use, they are very
>>>specific (page 2, "Capacity"):
>>>
>>>"We recommend always starting with at least 100 mL of full-strength
>>>developer to prepare the diluted solution for each 135-36 or 120 roll.
>>>for example, with a 1:3 dilution, this would produce about 400 mL of
>>>solution. This is the minimum amount per roll, even though a lesser
>>>amount may be adequate to cover the film"
>>
>>Yes, the data sheet is specific, but also not all that clear.
>>
>>The 'Capacity' section has a subsection 'Time Compensation' which states
>>that the capacity is approx 15 rolls of film per litre, with time
>>compensation. These three words are important. And then, if you go to the
>>bottom of the page, there is a table for the time compensation. It says:
>>"increase normal development time by 15% if you develop 6-10 films per
>>litre and increase these times by another 15%  (that is by one-third in
>>total) if you develop 11 to 15 films per litre full strength developer
>>(FSD)".
>>
>>To me that means that if you use 100ml FSD per film you develop 10 rolls
>>per litre and should increase the times given in the table by 15%. Perhaps
>>a little more as a 33% increase is recommended if you use 91 ml (1000 ml
>>divided by 11 films),  and I do not think that development times jumps in
>>such steps for minor dilution changes. As always, your mileage may vary....
>>And the mileage for different brand films does vary as the test made by
>>Jobo confirms. They say Fuji and Agfa need more developer than Kodak and
>>Ilford films
>>
>>On the subject of Jobo tanks (and other are similar), on the bottom of my
>>tank it says that its needs 260 ml per film, which is true.  But what is
>>also true is that you can put as much as 400 ml in the small tank, and this
>>may be the solution to the capacity problem you would otherwise have. Just
>>be a little bit more careful when agitating and emptying the tank.
>>
>>I have tried Xtol undiluted and diluted 1+1 and 1+2 and 1+3 with Delta 100
>>exposed at 200. I found the 1+1 dilution to give the best over all result.
>>I always buy the 5 litre pack, which costs less than two one litre packs. I
>>find it false economy to save on developer and I use at least 150 ml FSD
>>per film. Troop and Anchell would find even that too little I guess.....
>>150 ml makes almost 7 films per litre FSD and I have found the 15% time
>>increase described above to be needed and adequate.
>>
>>--
>>christer almqvist
>>eichenstrasse 57, d-20255 hamburg, fon +49-40-407111 fax +49-40-4908440
>>14 rue de la hauteur, f-50590 regnéville-sur-mer, fon+fax +33-233 45 35 58
>>
>>
>>


- --
christer almqvist
eichenstrasse 57, d-20255 hamburg, fon +49-40-407111 fax +49-40-4908440
14 rue de la hauteur, f-50590 regnéville-sur-mer, fon+fax +33-233 45 35 58