Re: [Leica] Come on guys

["Gary D. Whalen" <whalen@whalentennis.com>]

    If the arguments of Oddmund and Mr. Hurtubise are followed then by any rational
argument "all" topics related or remotely related to photography can be discussed
within this group.  Therefore a topic such as pornography is open for discussion as
these are definitely photographic in nature.  I think not.  I also don't think that
because a topic does not have a personal interest to me that it should not be
discussed in this group.  There are many topics I care nothing about that are
discussed in this group but they are topics that do directly relate to photography:
ie,  b&W developing,  Leica collectibles,  old lenses and bodies, and projectors.
These are topics that have no interest to me but certainly belong in this group.
    The word censorhip and its association with my post is ridiculous and childish.
I certainly did not or do not suggest censorship.  However, I also don't believe that
your personal politics is relevant to this photography site anymore than the record
of the Canandiens, the mayor of Oslo or the population of Amsterdam.  These topics
may be interesting to some or they may not but there is a forum for their discussion
and it is not this one.
    One final argument.  The very fact that you are trying to imply that I am being
selfish "individuals feel the whole world revolves around me" could certainly and
logically be turned back into your face and is implied in your own post.
    I personally don't care about your politics.  That is not a personal attack on
either of you but is simply a fact.  You are correct in stating that I don't have to
read your posts.  That is also a fact.  However,  I also have the right to post a
statement questioning your use of this site for your political views.  Your argument
with that says volumes about your own complaining.  I guess I can't complain but you
can.  I guess I can't state an opinion but you can.
    Anyone want to talk about photography?  I'm ready.


Jim Hurtubise wrote:

> Oddmund, you were very kind in your reply to Mr. Whalen. I can not be so kind.
> Censorship on the Leica USERS Group (that is what LUG stands for) has been
> discussed many times, and I believe the consensus has been that anything remotely
> Leica related is fair game. Everyone has the right to use their delete key not
> the right to dictate the discussion. I don't recall hearing Mr. Whalen protest
> about the high end audio thread, or the I drive this kind of SUV thread. Were
> these somehow more acceptable non-topics to you? Sadly we have created a society
> where individuals feel the world revolves around them and when it comes to
> subjects outside of their immediate world, they prefer to bury their head in the
> sand. They have everything and care about nothing. For you maybe photography is
> nothing but a hobby and pastime, but there are many photojournalists and others
> on this list who want to make photographs that have meaning and the power to move
> others emotionally. To do this you have to care about something other than your
> own personal gratification. Referring to someone's else's personal views as "bs"
> is well, bs.  We have a great variety of users on this list and I enjoy reading
> about how they use their Leicas, why they use them and what they use them for. If
> their political views help shape the type of images they make, well I want to
> hear about that too. I feel very strongly that no one here should be trying to
> limit the discussions to pre-ordained or majority approved topics and telling
> others to take their discussion elsewhere. And as also posted previously, the LUG
> is more than just a discussion group. So stop the complaining about
> non-topics....everyone.
>
> Jim Hurtubise
>
> At 06:56 01/12/1998 -0500, Gary D. Whalen wrote:
> >  Come on guys.  This is not a political forum nor is it a managment
> >forum.  This is the "Leica Photography" forum.  Can we please somehow
> >resist the temptation of posting to the world our political, management
> >and financial views of Leica.  Unless I am wrong we do photography to
> >get away from that bs so I don't want to read about it here.  Maybe you
> >could personally e-mail each other with your views and save the rest of
> >us from these "non-topics".
>
> Oddmund replied:
> In my case you are wrong. In the case of photographers who made Leica
> famous, you are wrong as well. If they did "photography to get away from
> that bs", we would never have Leicas today, or just some prototypes in
> museums. Leica is a part of contemporary history, having witnessed, and
> still witnessing, showing the diversity of life, human situations, suffering,
> dignity, sorry and happiness, smile and tears. This is "politics", and this
> will always be "politics". Politics and economy, and moral if you want.
> There is nothing wrong about it, as there is nothing wrong about this being
> discussed in the Leica Users Group.