Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/10/08

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Subject: [Leica] Re: R vs L lenses (WAS: moving to Leica SLR)
From: nbwatson@juno.com (N. B. Watson)
Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 16:18:57 EDT

Disregarading the possiblities of focussing malfunctions and your
personal ability to hand-hold, to achieve the same degree of sharpness as
a shutter speed of 1/250-1/500 with 50/2 on an M6, you  would need
1/2000-1/4000 with the 100 APO-R on an R7.  I'm adding 1 stop for the
M6/R7 difference (rfdr vs. SLR-mirror bounce), 1 stop for the weight
differential (the 100 APO is a heavy lens) and 1 stop for the increase in
magnification.  Next, to achieve the avantage of the same depth-of-field
as the 50 at f5.6-f8 you would need to stop the 100 down smaller than
f/32 (guaging from my 50 and 105 Nikkors' DOF scales as I write this). 
So your results are not surprising, and moreover, you shouldn't attempt
to draw conclusions from that test, other than that at equal speeds and
apertures, a 50mm lens on a rangefinder camera will give sharper handheld
results than a 100mm lens on an SLR.

Regards,
Nigel

On Thu, 08 Oct 1998 09:56:36 -0700 Five Senses Productions
<fls@san.rr.com> writes:
>I just may keep the M6 after all.
>I performed a non-scientific test of my own yesterday.
>I took out my M6 and my R7 together, handheld,
>and shot the same things with both cameras.
>On the M6 I used the 50/2, and on the R7 I used the 
>100/2.8.  On both cameras I used an aperture of
>5.6 to 8, depending upon light.
>I found that my M6 slides were WAY sharper and 
>clearer than the R7 shots.  Now I know it may not be entirely fair
>because I used different focal lengths, but the difference was
>absoultely dramatic.  The M6 shots were stunningly sharp
>for being handheld (1/250 to 1/500), and looked as if they 
>were tripod shots.  The R7 shots were fuzzy, with not much appearing
>to be focused sharply.  The results were consistent throughout all the
>R7 slides, not just on a few.  In some, it seemed that the point that 
>I had
>focused on was not in focus, but another point was.  Very 
>disappointing.
>
>I have determined the following, and maybe you can comment on 
>whether these things may or may not be true.
>Either:
>(a) I have a hard time handholding the R7 (weight, size?)
>and the M6 is better suited for my style of shooting because
>of size and ergonomics
>or
>(b)  Something is wrong with the focusing screen or diopter
>setting on my R7
>
>Can someone comment?
>
>Francesco
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 12:52 PM 10/6/98 +0200, Pascal wrote:
>>On 06-10-1998 00:29 Francesco Sanfilippo wrote:
>>
>>>I just worry because I hear so much about the lens tests and ratings
>>>of M lenses, but not much on R lenses.  I want to make sure I am 
>getting
>>>THE BEST of Leica.....if the best lenses are M, I will go with M.
>>>If R lenses are coming out ahead, I will choose R.
>>
>>Francesco:
>>
>>no need to worry. Maybe M lenses do get more attention because they 
>>belong to the legendary Leica M system. By comparison, the R system 
>is 
>>less "legendary".  The French photo magazine Chasseur d'Images treats 
>
>
>>both series the same way without favoritism.
>>As far as optics are concerned, there is really no meaningfull 
>difference 
>>between the two product lines.
>>
>>During my visit to the Leica factory in Solms last week, we were 
>showed 
>>both R and M lenses production rooms, as well as the M6 manufacturing 
>and 
>>finetuning rooms.
>>I asked a couple of questions on lenses, while we were being shown 
>the 
>>production process of aspheric lenses, like why the M series get all 
>the 
>>ASPH treatment, unlike the R series (until the Japanese made zoom 
>>35-70/4.0 -where the aspheric element is not even advertised- and the 
>new 
>>Solms made 35-70/2.8 ASPH).
>>The reason is quite simple: until recently it was practically 
>impossible 
>>to have excellent quality aspherical glass for such large diameters 
>as is 
>>needed for R lenses. This has changed now, with a new method of 
>grinding 
>>the lenses (instead of the way the Summilux-M 35 ASPH, Summicron-M 35 
>
>>ASPH, Elmarit-M 21 ASPH and Elmarit-M 24 ASPH were made), which makes 
>
>>things practical for R lenses as well with the same high quality as 
>the 
>>aspheric treatment for M lenses. Maybe Erwin can tell the difference 
>>between these two production methods.
>>
>>The main practical consequence of this is that we may expect to see 
>some 
>>more ASPH's in the R lenses, like e.g. the much-awaited and 
>much-rumored 
>>replacement of the Summicron- R 90 with an ASPH version in the very 
>near 
>>future, and the replacement of the Summilux-R 35 with an ASPH version 
>a 
>>bit further off. I am not sure whether the addition of an ASPH 
>element in 
>>the Summilux-R 80 is seen as an urgent need, although it would 
>certainly 
>>be useful (I myself am not too satisfied with its performances at the 
>two 
>>widest f-stops).
>>
>>It looks like there are a couple more exciting things to come from 
>Leica 
>>in the future !
>>
>>BTW, I wanted to try out the new 35-70/2.8 ASPH zoom, but not even 
>the 
>>Leica Akademie had this lens available. It apparently only exists in 
>very 
>>small numbers for now. Rollout should follow in Q1 of 1999. But the 
>price 
>>in the new Leica pricelist brochure (German version) is pretty steep 
>and 
>>well over 5,000 DEM.
>>
>>Pascal
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------
>>Check out: http://members.xoom.com/cyberplace/
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>>Who else than Leica could make a camera like the R8 ?
>>With that unique design and above all: that ergonomics.
>>Nikon ? Canon ? Nobody but Leica !
>>-------------------------------------------------------
>
>><<< PGP public key available on request >>>
>> 
>
>

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