[Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.

Fri Apr 28 17:15:00 PDT 2023

Since when is politically correct hang out here on the LUG?

I was quoting a long used phrase..... even if it is not PC nor correct in application........

It was meant, in olden times, to mean people of power/influence or people of wealth.

Nothing more.

Frank Filippone
BMWRed735i at Gmail.com

On 4/28/2023 2:00 PM, Richard Man wrote:
> Not sure if "Indian Chiefs" should be used, just saying.
>
> My M9 got destroyed by fire, and I bought an M10, the original, for a
> reasonable for Leica price. Love it. No wish to upgrade even if I could
> afford it. The M10 embodies the best of the original Leica philosophy.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 12:44 PM jnelon<jnelon at nelonassociates.com>  wrote:
>
>> Well said.
>>
>> James R. Nelon
>> Partner
>> WNDA Studios
>> O: +1.207.389.4676
>> C: +1.508.308.6525
>> Email:JNelon at WNDAStudios.com
>> Website:https://WNDAStudios.com
>> LinkedIn:https://LinkedIn.com/in/JamesNelon
>> Highlight Reel:https://Vimeo.com/252904552
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: LUG<lug-bounces+jnelon=nelonassociates.com at leica-users.org>  On
>> Behalf Of Frank Filippone via LUG
>> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2023 1:57 PM
>> To: Leica Users Group<lug at leica-users.org>
>> Cc: Frank Filippone<bmwred735i at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens"
>> race.
>>
>> I am really interested in what you have said.....especially in light of
>> what Dr. Kauffman has said about computational photography.
>>
>> There is a major and basic decision you must reach as a company... do you
>> want to cheapen your costs to the minimum or do you want to create THE BEST.
>>
>> For Nikon, Canon and other mainstream photo brands, obviously it is more
>> profitable to reduce costs.
>>
>> And by corollary, to allow THE BEST to be made by others. ( ignore this
>> segment of the market).  It suits their economies of scale.  It suits the
>> pure number of employees they have.  It suits their heritage and it suits
>> their Management.  Said simply, it suits their profit motives.
>>
>> The move from a mechanical camera to the almost totally digital
>> digi-cameras was a major move for them.  ( and genius of the old Minolta
>> folk at Sony.... )
>>
>> But back to the main story, Kauffman has talked a lot about computational
>> photography.  The use of computers to fix stuff in an image.  But HIS
>> engineers are busy making $10,000 lenses that are close to perfection as is
>> currently possible.  The computational photography side of the business is
>> relegated to developing "stuff" on contract for other companies....
>>   Including Huawei.
>>
>> Why speak out of both sides of your mouth?  It could be misdirection of
>> strategy, or simply a way to remain in business.  Leica can not compete on
>> volume or price. It's main market must be a niche.
>>
>> That Leica niche is not computational photography, it is optical
>> superiority.
>>
>> The market they play in is one of rich Doctors, Lawyers and Indian
>> Chiefs.  It is NOT Mr. Joe Average.  It is NOT Mr Pro Photographer.
>>
>> A few photographers make their livelihoods using Leica cameras and
>> lenses.  But the vast majority do not.  Pros just can not afford the costs,
>> initial or updating.  It makes no business sense.
>>
>> And thus it is....... that we as amateurs (rich Doctors, Lawyers and
>> Indian Chiefs) and retirees are Leica's market segment.
>>
>> Can we actually see the difference compared to CaNikon?  Does it matter?
>> We want to know we are using THE BEST.
>>
>> And we can afford ( main word there!) to buy THE BEST.
>>
>> And as long as we or our kids want the same, Leica will produce THE BEST
>> for us.
>>
>> Because they have no other choice.
>>
>> Frank Filippone
>> BMWRed735i at Gmail.com
>>
>> On 4/28/2023 3:55 AM, Don Dory via LUG wrote:
>>> Greetings to all.  As many know I was at the LSI Spring meeting at the
>>> Leica headquarters in NJ.  As usual Leica provides their latest gear
>>> on loan for a day.  I had the opportunity to use the M11 Monochrome
>>> with my ASPH Summilux(s) and the 28 APO Summicron.  I have to say that
>>> the sensor is way ahead of the lenses and your budget should include
>>> several of the APO lenses if you go to the M11 M.
>>>
>>> Another point, the existing plug in software doesn't properly
>>> recognize the M11M files so you are reliant on the built in Adobe
>>> features or possibly the Capture One that is offered with the
>>> M11M(James H.) would have more information on that.
>>>
>>> As an aside, I believe that the Japanese camera makers are proceeding
>>> in a different direction with software enabled lens correction.  I
>>> know that the lenses I mount on high res Sony cameras all seem to
>>> deliver more detail than I could get out of the M11M with existing
>>> software.  The information is there in the files so it is no fault of
>>> the camera but more that the files are currently not well supported.
>>>
>>> I had the chance to talk to a high ranking individual within the Leica
>>> organization at breakfast.  The gist was that Leica was proceeding on
>>> an optical solution rather than a software enabled solution.  Probably
>>> the better solution as if the information is there software can take
>>> it to an even higher level.  However, it puts Leica on a cost
>>> effective curve that makes their products even more exclusive: also,
>>> it hurts production volume as some of their designs have very high
>> defect rates by Leica standards.
>>> Obviously this drives an even higher price point.
>>>
>>> Last, one of the participants received a survey from Leica with one
>>> question about Japanese production of lenses at a (much) lower price
>>> point.  So, Leica is aware of the pricing problem and is trying to
>>> work on it.
>>>
>>> Last, this Leica representative clarified the classic stool of any
>> product:
>>> price, size, performance.  You could have any two.  I am currently
>>> weighing this as I own several of Sigma's most excellent lenses for the
>> FE mount.
>>> Their performance is magnificent however the average weight is in the
>>> neighborhood of 1.5 kilograms compared to my 35 ASPH Summilux in the
>>> high
>>> 300 grams.  The Sigma is a better lens but my shoulder and hand don't
>>> appreciate the weight as much as my eyes appreciate the image quality.
>>>
>>> On the positive side, Leica lenses still retain a significant resale
>>> advantage.
>>>
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>>
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