[Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens" race.

[Richard Man]

Not sure if "Indian Chiefs" should be used, just saying.

My M9 got destroyed by fire, and I bought an M10, the original, for a
reasonable for Leica price. Love it. No wish to upgrade even if I could
afford it. The M10 embodies the best of the original Leica philosophy.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2023 at 12:44 PM jnelon <jnelon at nelonassociates.com> wrote:

> Well said.
>
> James R. Nelon
> Partner
> WNDA Studios
> O: +1.207.389.4676
> C: +1.508.308.6525
> Email: JNelon at WNDAStudios.com
> Website: https://WNDAStudios.com
> LinkedIn: https://LinkedIn.com/in/JamesNelon
> Highlight Reel: https://Vimeo.com/252904552
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LUG <lug-bounces+jnelon=nelonassociates.com at leica-users.org> On
> Behalf Of Frank Filippone via LUG
> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2023 1:57 PM
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Cc: Frank Filippone <bmwred735i at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica lens quality as a forerunner to another "lens"
> race.
>
> I am really interested in what you have said.....especially in light of
> what Dr. Kauffman has said about computational photography.
>
> There is a major and basic decision you must reach as a company... do you
> want to cheapen your costs to the minimum or do you want to create THE BEST.
>
> For Nikon, Canon and other mainstream photo brands, obviously it is more
> profitable to reduce costs.
>
> And by corollary, to allow THE BEST to be made by others. ( ignore this
> segment of the market).  It suits their economies of scale.  It suits the
> pure number of employees they have.  It suits their heritage and it suits
> their Management.  Said simply, it suits their profit motives.
>
> The move from a mechanical camera to the almost totally digital
> digi-cameras was a major move for them.  ( and genius of the old Minolta
> folk at Sony.... )
>
> But back to the main story, Kauffman has talked a lot about computational
> photography.  The use of computers to fix stuff in an image.  But HIS
> engineers are busy making $10,000 lenses that are close to perfection as is
> currently possible.  The computational photography side of the business is
> relegated to developing "stuff" on contract for other companies....
>  Including Huawei.
>
> Why speak out of both sides of your mouth?  It could be misdirection of
> strategy, or simply a way to remain in business.  Leica can not compete on
> volume or price. It's main market must be a niche.
>
> That Leica niche is not computational photography, it is optical
> superiority.
>
> The market they play in is one of rich Doctors, Lawyers and Indian
> Chiefs.  It is NOT Mr. Joe Average.  It is NOT Mr Pro Photographer.
>
> A few photographers make their livelihoods using Leica cameras and
> lenses.  But the vast majority do not.  Pros just can not afford the costs,
> initial or updating.  It makes no business sense.
>
> And thus it is....... that we as amateurs (rich Doctors, Lawyers and
> Indian Chiefs) and retirees are Leica's market segment.
>
> Can we actually see the difference compared to CaNikon?  Does it matter?
> We want to know we are using THE BEST.
>
> And we can afford ( main word there!) to buy THE BEST.
>
> And as long as we or our kids want the same, Leica will produce THE BEST
> for us.
>
> Because they have no other choice.
>
> Frank Filippone
> BMWRed735i at Gmail.com
>
> On 4/28/2023 3:55 AM, Don Dory via LUG wrote:
> > Greetings to all.  As many know I was at the LSI Spring meeting at the
> > Leica headquarters in NJ.  As usual Leica provides their latest gear
> > on loan for a day.  I had the opportunity to use the M11 Monochrome
> > with my ASPH Summilux(s) and the 28 APO Summicron.  I have to say that
> > the sensor is way ahead of the lenses and your budget should include
> > several of the APO lenses if you go to the M11 M.
> >
> > Another point, the existing plug in software doesn't properly
> > recognize the M11M files so you are reliant on the built in Adobe
> > features or possibly the Capture One that is offered with the
> > M11M(James H.) would have more information on that.
> >
> > As an aside, I believe that the Japanese camera makers are proceeding
> > in a different direction with software enabled lens correction.  I
> > know that the lenses I mount on high res Sony cameras all seem to
> > deliver more detail than I could get out of the M11M with existing
> > software.  The information is there in the files so it is no fault of
> > the camera but more that the files are currently not well supported.
> >
> > I had the chance to talk to a high ranking individual within the Leica
> > organization at breakfast.  The gist was that Leica was proceeding on
> > an optical solution rather than a software enabled solution.  Probably
> > the better solution as if the information is there software can take
> > it to an even higher level.  However, it puts Leica on a cost
> > effective curve that makes their products even more exclusive: also,
> > it hurts production volume as some of their designs have very high
> defect rates by Leica standards.
> > Obviously this drives an even higher price point.
> >
> > Last, one of the participants received a survey from Leica with one
> > question about Japanese production of lenses at a (much) lower price
> > point.  So, Leica is aware of the pricing problem and is trying to
> > work on it.
> >
> > Last, this Leica representative clarified the classic stool of any
> product:
> > price, size, performance.  You could have any two.  I am currently
> > weighing this as I own several of Sigma's most excellent lenses for the
> FE mount.
> > Their performance is magnificent however the average weight is in the
> > neighborhood of 1.5 kilograms compared to my 35 ASPH Summilux in the
> > high
> > 300 grams.  The Sigma is a better lens but my shoulder and hand don't
> > appreciate the weight as much as my eyes appreciate the image quality.
> >
> > On the positive side, Leica lenses still retain a significant resale
> > advantage.
> >
>
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-- 
// richard http://imagecraft.com