Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/01/30

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Subject: [Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM
From: jsmith342 at gmail.com (Jeffery Smith)
Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 17:33:07 -0600
References: <K9V61n00z0AFV7C019V7m7>, <52E71094.5080901@cox.net><80F9701439F20347874CE5E4E03C22E9E683D31D@WhizzMAIL01.whizz.org><3941DB73-ED40-4DBC-AB4F-A065EA3E682E@gmail.com><80F9701439F20347874CE5E4E03C22E9E684A46B@WhizzMAIL01.whizz.org> <106455A3-8D0D-47AD-AA36-1DCA2E75079A@archiphoto.com> <LG431n01j0AFV7C01G455u> <52EADF49.3010202@cox.net>

I learned the Zone System from Fred Picker books, and used a Soligor spot 
meter (with Picker?s adhesive zone system guide stuck to it). I loved the 
ritual of determining exposure using the Zone System, but I wasn?t shooting 
street photography at the time. Sometimes using the current auto everything 
cameras (with face recognition, etc.) feels a bit like shooting a deer with 
a laser guided missile. 

Jeffery

On Jan 30, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Ken Carney <kcarney1 at cox.net> wrote:

> Hi Ted
> 
> When I shot LF I went through all the zone system stuff.  I pulled out my 
> Pentax spotmeter this week and it has the film speeds taped to it for film 
> and developer combinations at N-1, N-2 and so on. Very helpful if you are 
> shooting sheet film and developing one sheet at a time - perhaps not the 
> best approach to covering the Olympics. When I took up 35mm I discovered 
> The New Zone System by Jim Brick. It has no doubt been posted many times 
> before but here it is:
> 
> There are four zones.
> Zone Good, Zone Bad, Zone Ugly, Zone Butt Ugly.
> 
> To use the system:
> Wake up. Get out of bed. Go outside.
> 
>    Zone Good
>    It is light overcast, light shadows but good light direction. Normal 
> contrast.
>    Expose normal (eg: ASA-100 @ 100) develop normal.
> 
>    Zone Bad
>    It is dismally overcast, no shadows, perhaps even drizzle. Low contrast.
>    Underexpose one stop (eg: ASA-100 @ 200) overdevelop 20%
> 
>    Zone Ugly
>    The sun is out, sky is clear with puffy clouds, and there are blatant 
> shadows. High contrast.
>    Overexpose one stop (eg: ASA-100 @ 50) underdevelop 20%
> 
>    Zone Butt Ugly
>    The sun is squinty bright, cloudless sky, and the shadows really deep. 
> Very high contrast.
>    Go in, and go back to bed!. But, if you are a die-hard...
>    Overexpose two stops (eg: ASA-100 @ 25) underdevelop 30%
> 
> 
> On 1/30/2014 10:04 AM, tedgrant at shaw.ca wrote:
>> John McMaster wrote:
>> 
>>> You are correct Lluis, over 16 years since I last developed a B&W film! 
>>> Zone system all the way, spotmeter, exposure tests for base density then 
>>> development tests for highlights all measured on a densitometer - how 
>>> quickly I forgot :-(>
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> When I read about the shooting methods of many of the crew I become 
>> amazed I ever got an exposure during my 65 years of exposing film on any 
>> assignment in my life?
>> MY METHOD......"OBSERVE - SHOOT!" :-) KISS! :-) Of course many times I 
>> took light meter readings, generally landscapes and available light 
>> photos of my children. Or working a crowd situation? I would take a 
>> reading, then see what the camera was reading and if they were close?  
>> generally were... SHOOT! Letting camera set and go with what it felt fit 
>> to use.
>> 
>> Imagine me shooting in an operating room and taking meter readings for 
>> every frame when on the last book. WOMEN IN MEDICINE! Where I exposed 500 
>> rolls of tri-x at ASA 800 using three M7's and a couple of R8's only a 
>> quick peak at the shutter speed red in the view finder. If it looked 
>> cool? 99.9% of the time it was "CLICK!"
>> 
>> So you can imagine my surprise of many of you lads and all the testing 
>> and checking you went through. The zone system?  My interpretation of the 
>> zone system?
>> 
>> That's the demilitarized zone between the 2 Koreas and all you need to 
>> know about that??????  DON'T GO THERE! ;-) I could never understand about 
>> all the time wasted figuring it out unless you were shooting rocks and 
>> ferns and peeling paint?  REAL LIFE MOMENTS? And shooting 36 frames 
>> nearly every frame under various light conditions?
>> 
>> In any event as many of the LUG CREW who go through all the digital 
>> techie stuff, I still try to keep it KISS as much as possible as I'm 
>> shooting . It'll still be my method as I begin shooting with a new book 
>> designer and editor next week producing a book on the University of 
>> Victoria's School of Medicine and it's ten year celebration.
>> 
>> However I'm in awe of the folks who have the patients for all the extra 
>> "checking" and adjusting you go through in capturing your exposures. In 
>> deed great admiration!
>> 
>> HENNING RESPONDED:
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM
>> 
>> 
>> "I would say expose for the highlights, because if they're overcooked 
>> you'll never see them again. Process (develop) for the shadows. This is 
>> closer to how one treated slide film and in that sense it's like all 
>> digital files. With the MM files you just have more DR and can easily 
>> pull things out from the shadows when necessary.<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>> 
>> I suppose one could offer: "What works for one shooter is total confusion 
>> to another?"
>> 
>> BOTTOM-LINE? "Whatever ones method is, as long as the end result is a 
>> cool dude photo? Who cares how you capture it? Unless a special effect is 
>> required for a similar looking image... IE: SWISHY - PAN IMAGES CREATING 
>> SPEED APPEARANCES?"
>> 
>> cheers,
>> ted
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> "wHAT'S GOOD FOR ONE IS TOTAL CONFUSION FOR ANOTHER? tHE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
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Replies: Reply from richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)
In reply to: Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)
Message from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)
Message from lluisripollphotography at gmail.com (Lluis Ripoll) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)
Message from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)
Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Comparing B&W M9/MM)