Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/06/26

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Subject: [Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 13:23:06 -0700
References: <CDF0B15D.C2D8%mark@rabinergroup.com>

On Jun 26, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:

> Why don't you Steve?

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/barbour/paw2013/?g2_page=5

and the preceding pages...(many leica, many other, you can not tell the 
difference)

You would know, if you had taken a look at some of my images, and those of 
many other photographers here.

So a chance for a look now.... me, I'm out.

No more, I'm on my way to make some pictures.


Steve


> On 6/26/13 2:34 PM, "Steve Barbour" <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> hey Mark, why don't you hang it up and take some good pictures with what
>> ever....
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 26, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> "Good value" is a key term concerning this whole Leica deal.
>>> A fact that since its inception there was always a cheaper way to take
>>> pictures.  Always will be. Won't a Pentax Spotmatic still take very nice
>>> pictures?
>>> If it did and it cost half a Leica then its clearly to most people a 
>>> better
>>> value is it not?
>>> Or a Nikon F used by the vast majority of pro's a while back. Why pay 
>>> more
>>> than what the pros are paying? Don't you need to be looking through the
>>> lens?
>>> But a few went for the Leica for the numerous reasons which gets
>>> occasionally discussed here and other Leica lists.
>>> 1. You get to NOT look through the lens.
>>> 2. Premium build and glass.
>>> 3. more compact basic size form.
>>> 4. a bit more low key on the job
>>> 
>>> 5. looks nicer.
>>> 6. feels nicer.
>>> 8. a better investment of money.
>>> 9. I forgot.
>>> 10. _____ insert your own reason here.
>>> 
>>> As far as Leica goes it should got without saying there is always a 
>>> cheaper
>>> way out. And that gets called " good value". And that term was used by a 
>>> few
>>> others in the past couple of days and in reviews of the New Vario X I 
>>> just
>>> read...."but is it a good value?" they guy said.
>>> 
>>> Any of my Leica lenses I got in the 90's and beyond I can sell for twice
>>> what I laid out for them new.
>>> Any Nikon lens I got was like driving out of a dealership with a new car.
>>> A not small irretrievable loss had just occurred.
>>> 
>>> And every time I reached for my 35mm ASPH f2 Summicron M it didn't ask me
>>> for another $1495.
>>> It just made better images than any Nikon lens I had by far.
>>> 16x20 and 20x24 inch prints made first in my darkroom and then on my 
>>> Epson
>>> in odd sizes made for no doubt.
>>> And still I got to use the lens and it never once asked me for more cash.
>>> The  $1495 was gone. I'd long forgotten what else I may have done with 
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> Yes put me on the list please!
>>> Check it twice.
>>> 
>>> I have faith that many more of us will be getting new Leica M's this year
>>> and in the very near future. As plenty other people brand new to all 
>>> things
>>> Leica will be this year and in the very near future. And many of these
>>> people will be doing some high profile work.
>>> Soon you wont be able to get a decent table in a McDonalds without a 
>>> Leica M
>>> in your side bag.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/26/13 2:14 AM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mark, I doubt that anyone else on the list is as enthused with the new M
>>>> (or all of the M stuff I guess) as I am. I just got mine yesterday so 
>>>> I'm
>>>> barely starting to learn it.
>>>> Of course they are also still in extremely short supply and they cost a
>>>> lot. So was the M8 and the M9 initially. Actually mine cost me
>>>> significantly less than my M9  (which is going to a good home on the 
>>>> list).
>>>> I was just commenting that the Fuji cameras are very popular and seem 
>>>> like
>>>> good value, so much so here that no-one can sell you one in my city
>>>> currently which is a little ironic. Do I need one and would I buy one, 
>>>> no,
>>>> for the very obvious reason that I'm lucky enough to have a great camera
>>>> with superb lenses to use.
>>>> 
>>>> I'll put you on my group email list for stuff on the new camera if you
>>>> like. There just aren't many owners here as yet, I think. Henning a 
>>>> couple
>>>> of others as I recall.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> *Family and friends are everything.*
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Geoff
>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 26 June 2013 13:39, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Well I hope my tone was clear I'm on your side for being the only one 
>>>>> to
>>>>> mention the Leica brand on the thread I think it was an M240 you
>>>>> recommended.
>>>>> I was a bit put off by the unanimous consensus to get the Fuji system
>>>>> camera
>>>>> on the LUG today. Leica has moved far beyond this now. Cropped systems.
>>>>> The fuji is a half assed compromise.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I don't feel if that's what your now saying that the fact that the 
>>>>> Fuji is
>>>>> sold out that that makes it an item of interest for a list of supposed
>>>>> Leica
>>>>> lovers. It just means they made a camera marketed at the masses and is
>>>>> succeeding on that account.
>>>>> As far as APS-2 1.5x compacts go I'm ok with the ones with non
>>>>> interchangeable lenes. The idea of using my set of Leica glass on a 
>>>>> cropped
>>>>> format with odd balance and limited compatibility does not excite me. 
>>>>> But
>>>>> quite puts me off.
>>>>> The APS-C format is fine for me on a camera which goes into a pants 
>>>>> pocket.
>>>>> I'd even go the Vario X route though it would need a coat pocket.
>>>>> The compact glass on the Leica X2 or Vario are made for that format.
>>>>> As are some other ones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Fujifilm X100s $1,299 1.5 crop
>>>>> Leica X2 $1,995  1.5 crop
>>>>> Nikon Coolpix A $1,097  1.5 crop
>>>>> Ricoh GR $797  1.5 crop
>>>>> Sigma DP1, 2 or 3. $999 with a sensor closer to 2x crop.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But the camera to get of course is the Sony RX1 full frame.
>>>>> If I was not shooting with an M240 that would be my camera of choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm afraid at this point I have no patience for an M9 and the money I'd
>>>>> have
>>>>> to pay for one. I see it as a failed camera. A nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>> The fact that its no longer made speaks for itself.
>>>>> It was strike two.
>>>>> And strike three is not going to happen for the new digital Leica 
>>>>> company
>>>>> because the Leica M240 and Monochrom are huge winners taking the 
>>>>> company up
>>>>> to a higher level which I'm excited about. One in which far more 
>>>>> serious
>>>>> users are using rangefinder Leica gear.
>>>>> And the S Too.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not excited about people on the Leica list talking about a cropped 
>>>>> fuji
>>>>> as if its a replacement for a full frame M. which it clearly isn't.
>>>>> I'd expect to hear such garbage on the fuji list if there is one.
>>>>> Or a bunch of computer geeks talking gadgets du jour.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/25/13 6:39 PM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mark I could be considered biased here ;-)
>>>>>> However just suggesting what may work best for Ric whose apparently 
>>>>>> now
>>>>>> facing a large repair bill for a previously repaired M8.  Personally I
>>>>>> would be very frustrated in his position and very reluctant to spend 
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> on the M8. I would maybe also be elevating my protest if the repair
>>>>> agency
>>>>>> has said no to a warranty claim. Everyone's circumstance is different 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> their own of course. My understanding of that shutter problem was that
>>>>> the
>>>>>> slower max speed ones ought to be better. The shutter unit is in any
>>>>> case a
>>>>>> standard Copal unit that has been in many many camera for years
>>>>> including I
>>>>>> think R cameras and the M9 too. I know nothing on any MTBF histories
>>>>> though.
>>>>>> For what it's worth the excellent Fuji cameras are back ordered
>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>> here as well... But you can pick up almost any M lens or a Monochrom 
>>>>>> or
>>>>> an
>>>>>> M-E or an X anything or even a Dlux jeans edition right off a shelf. 
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> would wait longer for an M though...but my wait is over ;-)
>>>>>> On Jun 26, 2013 7:28 AM, "Mark Rabiner" <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Geoff you seem to be suggesting that someone on the LUG go out and 
>>>>>>> buy a
>>>>>>> Leica camera. I can't even belive what I am reading. You are way off
>>>>> topic.
>>>>>>> This is the Fuji only zone.
>>>>>>> Here today gone tomorrow cameras only.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 6/25/13 5:16 PM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I can only speak about the international warranty Ric where that is 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> case. I don't know the circumstances of the failure you got nor what
>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> done of course. A camera that goes to Solms at least is assessed
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> when any paid service is performed and any additional work would be
>>>>>>> quoted
>>>>>>>> and everything adjusted to spec and guaranteed. For the M9 at least 
>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> point you could buy an additional warranty period too.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> *Family and friends are everything.*
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 25 June 2013 21:32, RicCarter <ric at cartersxrd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> would that were true--my other M8 died less than a year after Leica
>>>>> CLA.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> They refused to talk about repaair because they said they had not
>>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>>>> the shutter.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> ric
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 25, 2013, at 5:27 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at 
>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Pay for a CLA and then get twelve months warranty on the whole 
>>>>>>>>>> camera
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>>>> Photography
>>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>> Photography
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photography
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!)