Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/06/26

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Subject: [Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 11:34:36 -0700
References: <CDF0AA26.C2BE%mark@rabinergroup.com>

hey Mark, why don't you hang it up and take some good pictures with what 
ever....



Steve




On Jun 26, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:

> "Good value" is a key term concerning this whole Leica deal.
> A fact that since its inception there was always a cheaper way to take
> pictures.  Always will be. Won't a Pentax Spotmatic still take very nice
> pictures?
> If it did and it cost half a Leica then its clearly to most people a better
> value is it not?
> Or a Nikon F used by the vast majority of pro's a while back. Why pay more
> than what the pros are paying? Don't you need to be looking through the
> lens?
> But a few went for the Leica for the numerous reasons which gets
> occasionally discussed here and other Leica lists.
> 1. You get to NOT look through the lens.
> 2. Premium build and glass.
> 3. more compact basic size form.
> 4. a bit more low key on the job
> 
> 5. looks nicer.
> 6. feels nicer.
> 8. a better investment of money.
> 9. I forgot.
> 10. _____ insert your own reason here.
> 
> As far as Leica goes it should got without saying there is always a cheaper
> way out. And that gets called " good value". And that term was used by a 
> few
> others in the past couple of days and in reviews of the New Vario X I just
> read...."but is it a good value?" they guy said.
> 
> Any of my Leica lenses I got in the 90's and beyond I can sell for twice
> what I laid out for them new.
> Any Nikon lens I got was like driving out of a dealership with a new car.
> A not small irretrievable loss had just occurred.
> 
> And every time I reached for my 35mm ASPH f2 Summicron M it didn't ask me
> for another $1495.
> It just made better images than any Nikon lens I had by far.
> 16x20 and 20x24 inch prints made first in my darkroom and then on my Epson
> in odd sizes made for no doubt.
> And still I got to use the lens and it never once asked me for more cash.
> The  $1495 was gone. I'd long forgotten what else I may have done with it.
> 
> Yes put me on the list please!
> Check it twice.
> 
> I have faith that many more of us will be getting new Leica M's this year
> and in the very near future. As plenty other people brand new to all things
> Leica will be this year and in the very near future. And many of these
> people will be doing some high profile work.
> Soon you wont be able to get a decent table in a McDonalds without a Leica 
> M
> in your side bag.
> 
> 
> On 6/26/13 2:14 AM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Mark, I doubt that anyone else on the list is as enthused with the new M
>> (or all of the M stuff I guess) as I am. I just got mine yesterday so I'm
>> barely starting to learn it.
>> Of course they are also still in extremely short supply and they cost a
>> lot. So was the M8 and the M9 initially. Actually mine cost me
>> significantly less than my M9  (which is going to a good home on the 
>> list).
>> I was just commenting that the Fuji cameras are very popular and seem like
>> good value, so much so here that no-one can sell you one in my city
>> currently which is a little ironic. Do I need one and would I buy one, no,
>> for the very obvious reason that I'm lucky enough to have a great camera
>> with superb lenses to use.
>> 
>> I'll put you on my group email list for stuff on the new camera if you
>> like. There just aren't many owners here as yet, I think. Henning a couple
>> of others as I recall.
>> 
>> 
>> *Family and friends are everything.*
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Geoff
>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>> 
>> 
>> On 26 June 2013 13:39, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well I hope my tone was clear I'm on your side for being the only one to
>>> mention the Leica brand on the thread I think it was an M240 you
>>> recommended.
>>> I was a bit put off by the unanimous consensus to get the Fuji system
>>> camera
>>> on the LUG today. Leica has moved far beyond this now. Cropped systems.
>>> The fuji is a half assed compromise.
>>> 
>>> I don't feel if that's what your now saying that the fact that the Fuji 
>>> is
>>> sold out that that makes it an item of interest for a list of supposed
>>> Leica
>>> lovers. It just means they made a camera marketed at the masses and is
>>> succeeding on that account.
>>> As far as APS-2 1.5x compacts go I'm ok with the ones with non
>>> interchangeable lenes. The idea of using my set of Leica glass on a 
>>> cropped
>>> format with odd balance and limited compatibility does not excite me. But
>>> quite puts me off.
>>> The APS-C format is fine for me on a camera which goes into a pants 
>>> pocket.
>>> I'd even go the Vario X route though it would need a coat pocket.
>>> The compact glass on the Leica X2 or Vario are made for that format.
>>> As are some other ones.
>>> 
>>> Fujifilm X100s $1,299 1.5 crop
>>> Leica X2 $1,995  1.5 crop
>>> Nikon Coolpix A $1,097  1.5 crop
>>> Ricoh GR $797  1.5 crop
>>> Sigma DP1, 2 or 3. $999 with a sensor closer to 2x crop.
>>> 
>>> But the camera to get of course is the Sony RX1 full frame.
>>> If I was not shooting with an M240 that would be my camera of choice.
>>> 
>>> I'm afraid at this point I have no patience for an M9 and the money I'd
>>> have
>>> to pay for one. I see it as a failed camera. A nice try, but no cigar.
>>> The fact that its no longer made speaks for itself.
>>> It was strike two.
>>> And strike three is not going to happen for the new digital Leica company
>>> because the Leica M240 and Monochrom are huge winners taking the company 
>>> up
>>> to a higher level which I'm excited about. One in which far more serious
>>> users are using rangefinder Leica gear.
>>> And the S Too.
>>> 
>>> I'm not excited about people on the Leica list talking about a cropped 
>>> fuji
>>> as if its a replacement for a full frame M. which it clearly isn't.
>>> I'd expect to hear such garbage on the fuji list if there is one.
>>> Or a bunch of computer geeks talking gadgets du jour.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/25/13 6:39 PM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Mark I could be considered biased here ;-)
>>>> However just suggesting what may work best for Ric whose apparently now
>>>> facing a large repair bill for a previously repaired M8.  Personally I
>>>> would be very frustrated in his position and very reluctant to spend 
>>>> more
>>>> on the M8. I would maybe also be elevating my protest if the repair
>>> agency
>>>> has said no to a warranty claim. Everyone's circumstance is different 
>>>> and
>>>> their own of course. My understanding of that shutter problem was that
>>> the
>>>> slower max speed ones ought to be better. The shutter unit is in any
>>> case a
>>>> standard Copal unit that has been in many many camera for years
>>> including I
>>>> think R cameras and the M9 too. I know nothing on any MTBF histories
>>> though.
>>>> For what it's worth the excellent Fuji cameras are back ordered
>>> everywhere
>>>> here as well... But you can pick up almost any M lens or a Monochrom or
>>> an
>>>> M-E or an X anything or even a Dlux jeans edition right off a shelf. You
>>>> would wait longer for an M though...but my wait is over ;-)
>>>> On Jun 26, 2013 7:28 AM, "Mark Rabiner" <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Geoff you seem to be suggesting that someone on the LUG go out and buy 
>>>>> a
>>>>> Leica camera. I can't even belive what I am reading. You are way off
>>> topic.
>>>>> This is the Fuji only zone.
>>>>> Here today gone tomorrow cameras only.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/25/13 5:16 PM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> I can only speak about the international warranty Ric where that is 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> case. I don't know the circumstances of the failure you got nor what
>>> was
>>>>>> done of course. A camera that goes to Solms at least is assessed
>>>>> completely
>>>>>> when any paid service is performed and any additional work would be
>>>>> quoted
>>>>>> and everything adjusted to spec and guaranteed. For the M9 at least at
>>>>> one
>>>>>> point you could buy an additional warranty period too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> *Family and friends are everything.*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 25 June 2013 21:32, RicCarter <ric at cartersxrd.net> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> would that were true--my other M8 died less than a year after Leica
>>> CLA.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> They refused to talk about repaair because they said they had not
>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>> the shutter.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ric
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Jun 25, 2013, at 5:27 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at 
>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Pay for a CLA and then get twelve months warranty on the whole 
>>>>>>>> camera
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>> Photography
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photography
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!)