Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/08
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I have SEEN them in person, not "have them" of course :-) On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:35 PM, Richard Man <richard at richardmanphoto.com>wrote: > Anyone can take a look at the COMPLETE set of photos in the exhibit here: > > http://www.blakeandrewsphoto.com/winogrand.pdf > > The images are pretty small, but I have them in person, as did many > others. > > > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Richard Man <richard at > richardmanphoto.com>wrote: > >> Mark, did you read everything I write? I made an observation. Viewers of >> his exhibit can judge for themselves about my observation, which once >> again >> is "few photos in his exhibit have people of colors, and exactly one Asian >> that we can find." I am not accusing him of anything. Anyone can confirm >> or >> refute my observation. The exhibit is still open and you can purchase the >> book for $50. >> >> May be it;s the curator and has billions of photos of African American in >> his vast quantity of negatives, but this exhibit does not show it. >> >> You are making accusation, I am not. Please have some restrain that you >> speak of. >> >> >> >> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at >> rabinergroup.com>wrote: >> >>> Have you seen his Rolodex? >>> Because it really appears you are accusing Garry Winogrand of racism. >>> And you don't know much about him. >>> The idea that he'd have any problem with having people of color in his >>> frame >>> is patently absurd. >>> When one makes slights against a someone's personal integrity some >>> restraint >>> in in order. Even if that person is not a towering figure of a particular >>> type. In this case a photographer who dedicated his life to capture the >>> world around him and who did it with some success. >>> Is this a controversy? >>> Has anyone in the history of the world ever said anything about the >>> color of >>> the people the great Garry Winogrand photographed? OF COURSE NOT. >>> >>> >>> On 5/8/13 11:59 PM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> wrote: >>> >>> > Mark, have you SEEN the exhibit? How can you tell anything from a >>> contact >>> > sheet JPG that is dark and muddy? >>> > >>> > Besides, you are the one making accusation, I am making an observation. >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://blog.ricecracker.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Winogrand-contact-she >>> >> et-950x811.jpg >>> >> Or >>> >> http://tinyurl.com/c2ppuu3 >>> >> >>> >> A really tasteless personally integrity slight against one of our >>> great >>> >> photographers. One could look a the work of Diane Arbus and Lee >>> Friedlander >>> >> and count the non white faces and make cracks about them it would be >>> just >>> >> as >>> >> crassly ridiculous. >>> >> Did Winogrand avoid getting non white faces in his camera frame? Just >>> what >>> >> are you saying here? >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 5/8/13 9:44 PM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> >>> >>> Nope, THAT image is particularly controversial (whether he intends >>> it or >>> >>> not is another matter). And nope, I just google image his name, and >>> other >>> >>> than THAT one, I still do not see images of people of color. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at >>> >>> rabinergroup.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> I just Google contact sheeted Garry Winogrand . >>> >>>> The every first pic which comes up involves people of color. >>> >>>> and the 3rd and 5th shots So it seems to be a pattern here in which >>> >> every >>> >>>> other pix involves a person of color. >>> >>>> It seems he was not ignoring them. Would seem to have no problem >>> with >>> >> other >>> >>>> than white people during an era of the civil rights movement in >>> which >>> >> you'd >>> >>>> have to be very blind to not be having a lot of empathy with that >>> >> struggle >>> >>>> and probably be a bit involved yourself.... >>> >>>> A key shot which comes up often is this one: >>> >>>> >>> >> >>> http://www.thephoblographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/winogrand.jpg >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On 5/7/13 12:35 AM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> I will just let the observation stands - there's no Asian and few >>> >> African >>> >>>>> Americans in his vast collection of photos (that we know of). >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Whether it's a subject worth analyzing or not is another matter. >>> >> Probably >>> >>>>> not. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Lew Schwartz <lew1716 at gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>>> Well, he certainly had a lot of skill, and what we see is the >>> result >>> >> of >>> >>>> a >>> >>>>>> lot of editing. We don't know for a fact who or what everything >>> was >>> >>>> that he >>> >>>>>> actually photographed. Ok, ok; I know ... same difference ... >>> move the >>> >>>>>> argument over to what we actually see after edits. I don't >>> understand >>> >>>> the >>> >>>>>> kind of bias you're hinting at. If someone shoots cowboy shows, >>> which >>> >> he >>> >>>>>> did, would that make him biased against antique fairs? I also >>> don't >>> >>>> think >>> >>>>>> of criticism as a form of acknowledgement or recognition. >>> >>>>>> It's like "Criticize me!! That way I'll at least know you know I'm >>> >>>>>> here." Good criticism is way more than this. Poor people and rich >>> >>>> people >>> >>>>>> don't go in for this sort of attention and neither do I, although >>> I'm >>> >>>>>> neither. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> -Lew Schwartz >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Richard Man < >>> >>>> richard at richardmanphoto.com >>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> Lew, may be it's a form of approval,... or may be it is a form of >>> >> color >>> >>>>>>> blindness. Come on, during the long period he photographed, from >>> 40s >>> >> to >>> >>>>>>> 80s, there were no interesting, even people to be critical >>> about, of >>> >>>>>> other >>> >>>>>>> races that he had met or seen? >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> We are not talking someone who takes 100 pictures or even 1000 >>> >>>> pictures a >>> >>>>>>> year. In that case, what do you expect type of thing. He takes >>> 100 >>> >>>>>> pictures >>> >>>>>>> a day easily. If you roam the streets of LA, or NY etc. and take >>> that >>> >>>>>> many >>> >>>>>>> pictures, it takes skills not to take pictures of people of >>> colors or >>> >>>>>>> Asians... >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Lew Schwartz <lew1716 at >>> >>>>>>> gmail.com> >>> >>>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> I'm not sure I entirely understand Richards remarks. Winogrand >>> never >>> >>>>>>>> represented himself to be a news photographer, although he >>> >> undoubtedly >>> >>>>>>> took >>> >>>>>>>> assignments and was presented to the public under that rubric. >>> I've >>> >>>>>>> always >>> >>>>>>>> thought of him as highly critical of the society he >>> photographed. >>> >> His >>> >>>>>>>> omissions may be a form of approval. >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -Lew Schwartz >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Phil Swango <pswango at >>> >>>>>>>> att.net> >>> >> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Richard Man wrote: >>> >>>>>>>>>> Winograd is not my favorite street artist, mainly because >>> it's the >>> >>>>>>> same >>> >>>>>>>>>> type of photos he shot. For example, the periods he covered >>> >>>>>> included >>> >>>>>>>> the >>> >>>>>>>>>> civil rights movement and of all the hundreds of photos in the >>> >>>>>> show, >>> >>>>>>>>> there >>> >>>>>>>>>> are may be 3-4 photos where African American are present, and >>> as >>> >>>>>> far >>> >>>>>>> as >>> >>>>>>>>> we >>> >>>>>>>>>> can tell, exactly one photo where there is an Asian present - >>> and >>> >>>>>>> only >>> >>>>>>>>>> because she was pretty and had goofy hair. >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> Interesting thoughts Richard. We just had a lecture in the >>> local >>> >>>>>>> museum >>> >>>>>>>>> about race, representation and photography. There's also an >>> >>>>>>> interesting >>> >>>>>>>>> new book in which an AA female photographer shoots her white >>> >> friends >>> >>>>>>> and >>> >>>>>>>>> muses on whether and how race may figure into reading the >>> photo. >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >>> http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/some-of-her-best-friends-are-white/ >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> If the link doesn't work look up Myra Greene. The book is "My >>> >> White >>> >>>>>>>>> Friends." I've ordered it. >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>>>>> Phil Swango >>> >>>>>>>>> 307 Aliso Dr SE >>> >>>>>>>>> Albuquerque, NM 87108 >>> >>>>>>>>> 505-262-4085 >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>> >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> >> information >>> >>>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>> >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> >> information >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> >>> >>>>>>> // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>> >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>> >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> Mark William Rabiner >>> >>>> Photography >>> >>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> Leica Users Group. >>> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Mark William Rabiner >>> >> Photography >>> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >>> >> Leica Users Group. >>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Mark William Rabiner >>> Photography >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> >> // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto >> >> > > > -- > // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> > // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto > > -- // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto