Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/01/31

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:09:43 -0500

Richard I think there is a big overlap between what is called "street
photography" and photo journalism to the extent that the street
photographers are often serious amateurs or fine art photographers not
hitting a deadline while the other  is the opposite. I think its pretty much
the same stuff. Both very story based. Capturing unposed reality as it goes
down.
You certainly have more leeway without a photo editor judging your stuff
just maybe a gallery owner. Shoot infra red. Use a 300 2.8 with a polarizing
filter. A PJ is probably going to be more straightforward with their
technique as the photo needs to be about what he's shooting not the photo
itself. You want:
"wow what is that guy doing with the Molotov cocktail on top of the
tank?!?!" 
NOT
"wow great picture I love the dramatic colors and odd perspective".


On 1/31/13 5:19 AM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> wrote:

> I think there are two different things: press / photojournalism, vs. street
> / documentary. The former is all about the story. You want to be right in
> the middle. This is why a lot of press are using 28, 24, and even 21.
> People head distortion is acceptable because you are looking at the drama.
> 
> While Street / documentary share a lot of traits, it's more about
> expressions, compositions, juxtaposition, light and shadow etc. so head
> distortion would be more unacceptable.
> 
> Generally speaking of course.
> 
> 
> On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 1:41 AM, FRANK DERNIE
> <frank.dernie at btinternet.com>wrote:
> 
>> Well, we are going to have to agree to disagree here, it is simply a
>> matter of taste (or it is in my case). Pictures of people made with lenses
>> wider than 35m look horrible to me, and I am not that keen on 35mm either,
>> 50 being my preference.
>> I -still- think the only reason press photogs use WA lenses is to get
>> everything in after they have pushed in front of everyone else, and the
>> results always look poor, but are OK for news value.
>> cheers,
>> FD
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013, 8:14
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Shanghai market part 2
>>> 
>>> When they say in effect if your work is weak get closer they're not 
>>> saying
>>> crop more. They're saying  get closer.
>>> I think the reason why both press and street photographers have gone wide
>>> and close in their work is the rapport they have with their subjects 
>>> while
>>> doing it. To be off shooting them from across the street is in a way
>> creepy
>>> and ineffective. For decades its been a close in kind of deal.
>>> 
>>> Don't recall you mentioning, Frank  working with lens like  an older
>> version
>>> of the just announced Nikon AF-S Nikkor 18-35mm F3.5-4.5G ED  which is a
>>> full frame version of the 12-24 f4 DX's from a few years ago which I have
>> a
>>> lot of experience with. And a more advanced updated version of the
>>> venerable Leica 21mm?35mm f/3.5?f/4.0 Vario-Elmar-R zoom .
>>> http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/21mm
>> ?35mm_f/3.5?f/4.0_
>>> Vario-Elmar-R
>>> 
>>> The reason a press photog goes with a wide for a hundred years now is so
>> the
>>> other cameras are not in front of him but working in the street more
>>> recently its about the  other people are in the way not  so much other
>>> photographers.  Street shooters like to be in the center of the action so
>>> they can pic who is in the center of their fame. The dynamics are way 
>>> more
>>> lively. Its not the crowd across the street its the guy real big in the
>>> frame in the foreground and the other guys are real small and sure off to
>>> the side they have watermelons for heads but we're all good with that by
>>> now.
>>> 
>>> I thought it was by the way a simple issue at day one period of the
>> Graflex
>>> SLR giving way to the Speed Graphics to avoid getting the backs of other
>>> photographers in the very early Part of the last century.
>>> But it was also the Speed Graphics giving way to the Crown graphics which
>>> were thinner with no focal plane shutter enabling the use of wider glass.
>>> And that was in 1947.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 1/31/13 2:34 AM, "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Why do you think that a longer lens is weaker?
>>>> IMO the perspective distortion inevitable in WA lenses is poor for
>> people
>>>> shots, and even though the hideous technical difficulty of producing a
>>>> reasonably sharp WA lens has been largely solved, they are still very
>>>> expensive for what you get.
>>>> I can understand a press photographer using one when there are 5
>> billion other
>>>> photographers milling around the same subject, get in front of the
>> others and
>>>> still get everything in, but it is just that - get the news shot, not
>> get a
>>>> -good- shot. IMHO of course.
>>>> 
>>>> If you get close in with a WA lens you are in peoples faces, which is
>> rude
>>>> (maybe its just my upbringing), and you get ugly shots.
>>>> 
>>>> IMO the -only- reason anybody would use WA for people is the press guy
>> needing
>>>> to get the shot in crowded conditions.
>>>> FD
>>>> 
>>>> On 31 Jan, 2013, at 05:47, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Seriously it looks like you had a 50mm viewfinder in your hot shoe and
>> a
>>>>> 24mm lens in your camera and now your fixing it. The cropped versions
>> are
>>>>> successful images. They came out even better than I thought.
>>>>> You need to stand closer to what your shooting.
>>>>> A second option being shoot with a longer lens but I do feel that's way
>>>>> weaker.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1/30/13 5:08 PM, "David English" <daveenglish at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> For you who have viewed this collection before and made constructive
>>>>>> comments
>>>>>> I went ahead and made the suggested adjustments on many of the
>> photos. I
>>>>>> posted the before and after right next to each other so you can swing
>> back
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> forth.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>> http://www.davidenglishphotos.com/Travel/Shanghai-Market/27782250_3tTZjC#!
>>>>>>>> i=
>>>>>>>> 2342544201&k=nVw3BZv
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Let me know what you think.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> David
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>> Photography
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photography
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
> 
> 




-- 
Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/




In reply to: Message from richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Shanghai market part 2)