Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Here in Oklahoma we must be moderates. We don't have any Confederate flags or survival gear, and would rather be staked out in a bed of starving ants than watch Fox News, but...what is wrong with a basement full of guns? Ken -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+kcarney1=cox.net at leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+kcarney1=cox.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Tina Manley Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 7:06 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization Absolutely! The diehard War of Northern Aggression supporters will tell you that the war was not about slavery. It was about state's rights. Many people still believe that and are convinced that the South will rise again! Those are the ones with Confederate flags and basements full of guns and survival gear and televisions tuned to Fox News. Some of my relatives. Tina On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:15 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: > Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of the > response was the truly great debate about the nature of the union. > Many in the Southern States truly believed in the State first and the > union second. > Lee is the perfect example of one who abhorred slavery but so loved > his Virginia that he declined the honor of leading the Union Armies in > the invasion of Virginia. > > Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that had a > lot to do with the ultimate war. With Lincoln as president there was > no doubt that the new states joining the union would be free states > that would ultimately change the balance of power in the Senate and > the House. If you were wealthy in the South, in no small part due to > slavery, then the idea that the industrial northern states combined > with the new states in the west could take your wealth away was worth > the expenditure of thousands of lives. Of course not their own. I > say that, but if you visit the University of Virginia you will see > that most of the classes near the Civil War died in the war: if you > could go to the University you were part of the ruling class. > > > On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in Mississippi > > near Greenwood. Most are still there in all their grubby glory. > > The Delta > is a > > place of great poverty with pockets of vast wealth. Good > > ingredients for the Blues. Most of the worst poverty is invisible > > now. It doesn't mean that it isn't there but it is poor politics to > > have rows of shotgun > shacks > > with no running water and no interior toilet facilities visible from > > the road. > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I knew that term would draw fire. Many residents of the > >> Southeastern U.S. use that term as from their perspective the > >> Northern States > violated > >> the long term agreement about slavery. It is important when moving > between > >> cultures to understand their perspective on how things happened and > >> more important the why. Whether it fits the facts on the ground > >> the personal reality is the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, > >> and the > origination > >> stories that culture tells itself. > >> > >> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the early > >> to mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or less and > >> proof that even know horrendous human undertakings require just as > >> horrendous a response to change. My opinion is that is why change > >> is so hard, the > price > >> of change is often as horrendous as the objected to activity. > >> Consider > the > >> Second World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, > >> Gypsies, > and > >> mental defectives being slaughtered but it took the lives of some > >> 20 million Russians, 12 million Germans, half a million French > >> citizens, > half > >> a million Americans, almost 600,000 Poles. I could go on but > >> certainly > a > >> very high price to resolve European issues starting in 1914. > >> > >> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of the > Civil > >> War there are a few still available of the "hospitals" where the > >> only > known > >> treatment for 58 caliber bullets smashing bone and flesh was > >> amputation; hence the piles of arms and legs. The United States > >> suffered more > deaths > >> and injuries during the Civil War than it did in any other > >> conflict: new estimates are at 750,000 casualties. > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> > wrote: > >> > >>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty of > >>> us who don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote > >>> Democratic, and don't stereotype others. > >>> > >>> Tina > >>> > >>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> > >>> wrote: > >>> > Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term > >>> > that > >>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the > >>> American Civil War. These can be, but not always are the same > >>> people that have large Confederate flag decals on their pickup > >>> trucks. It is an inaccurate description. President Lincoln was > >>> brilliant and far seeing, and > realized > >>> that if this succession was to become fact, there would be no end, > >>> and what is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led > >>> by who knows what. > >>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a bit. > >>> > > >>> > -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard > >>> > Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM > >>> > To: Leica Users Group > >>> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization > >>> > > >>> > could it be Vietnam? > >>> > ph > >>> > > >>> > Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit : > >>> > > >>> >> > >>> >> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote > >>> >>> > >>> >>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola. Or consider the images > >>> >>> from > >>> the > >>> War > >>> >>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs > >>> >>> outside the > >>> medical > >>> >>> tents. > >>> >> > >>> >> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with many > >>> >> terms > >>> used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? Do > >>> you mean the Korean War? I never saw those images. > >>> >> > >>> >> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought > >>> >> that > >>> started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it did > >>> according to all those school history books (European) I read 50 > >>> years ago. > >>> >> > >>> >> Maybe school books are different in the USA.... > >>> >> > >>> >> Douglas > >>> >> _________ > >>> >> Douglas Barry > >>> >> Bray, Co. Wicklow > >>> >> Republic of Ireland > >>> >> > >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >>> >> Leica Users Group. > >>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > information > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Leica Users Group. > >>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>> > information > >>> > > >>> > _______________________________________________ > >>> > Leica Users Group. > >>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>> > information > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Tina Manley, ASMP > >>> www.tinamanley.com > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>> information > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Don > >> don.dory at gmail.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Don > > don.dory at gmail.com > > > > > > -- > Don > don.dory at gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > -- Tina Manley, ASMP www.tinamanley.com _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information