Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/10/16
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Chris, I think this is an excellent, thoughtful post which makes a number of excellent points all of which I agree with. I want to be very clear about something. I do not for a moment challenge Jim's right to publish any photograph he wants. In fact, I support it. Nor do I think for a moment that he posted this photograph to promote racism. Far from it. I suspect that the people who put the sticker on their car did so out of fear, uncertainty, and anger. I support their right to stick what ever they want on their car. I particularly agree with your point that you do not have to look very far or dig too deeply to find racism in the North. I spent the first half of my working life in the news business. I have produced many documentaries. I understand the process and purpose of documenting the good, the bad, and the ugly very well. I've done it for a living. The picture did not offend you. It bothered me a lot. That's fine. Different things bother different people. I was careful to explain what it was in my background which caused my concern and why I reacted the way I did. If the people who own the car have a right to put a bumper sticker on it and if Jim has a right to post a photograph of it then I also have a right to point out that material of this sort, valuable document or not, points down a very slippery slope which causes me a lot of concern. Barney Barney Quinn, WK3Z C: (301) 775-1386 H: (301) 654-0938 On Oct 16, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Chris Crawford <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote: > The photo is not offensive at all. Jim didn't post it to encourage racism. > He made the photo as a documentation of the attitudes that are still all > too common in the USA, and its importance as a document is even more > profound in that it was taken in a northern state, not the deep south. A > lot of Americans don't realize that such attitudes are very common in the > north, because all the media tells us is that the south is where all the > racism is. > > Your uncle's experience shows that the north can be just as bad as the > deep south. History books are filled with instances of the KKK burning > black churches and businesses in Alabama and Mississippi, and are often > very silent about such things in New York, or Pennsylvania (where Jim > lives). My home state, Indiana, is a major KKK stronghold. The area of > Fort Wayne where I live, Waynedale, had its own KKK chapter when I was a > kid. They held a parade in Waynedale in 1982! I remember seeing it in > person when I was a little kid! In the early 1990s, the largest KKK in the > country, the American Knights Church of the Ku Klux Klan, was based in a > small town about 10 miles north of Fort Wayne. The group's leader went on > Jerry Springer three times! > > Many people don't realize that kind of thing exists in the northern > states, like Indiana, Pennsylvania, and New York. I'm glad Jim made that > photo, its an important historical document. Evidence that racism is not > dead, not even in the north, and we have a lot of work to do to defeat it. > If you're interested in learning more about the history of racism in the > north, check out James Loewen's book, "Sundown Towns: A Hidden Dimension > of American Racism." It is about small towns in the midwest and northeast > that prohibited blacks from living in them, and which required black > visitors to leave by sundown. Most of the small towns around Fort Wayne > were sundown towns. He also discusses all white suburbs outside cities > like New York and Chicago. > > -- > Chris Crawford > Fine Art Photography > Fort Wayne, Indiana > 260-437-8990 > > http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio > > http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com My latest work! > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 > Become a fan on Facebook > > > > On 10/16/12 3:26 PM, "bjq1 at mac.com" <bjq1 at mac.com> wrote: > >> >> I want to tell you about my Uncle Barney. Actually my Great Uncle Barney. >> I am proud to be named after him. He was an Army Chaplain during World >> War I. Rather than live in relative comfort behind the lines he insisted >> in being in the trenches with his men. He was gassed twice by the >> Germans. He was told as a result that he would probably develop and die >> from cancer, He did. >> >> He founded the first church for Black Catholics in the United States. In >> Brooklyn. He also founded an orphanage for Black Children in Wading >> River, NY. It was burned down twice by the KKK. I still remember the >> stories my Dad and my Uncles told me about helping Uncle Barney rebuild >> his orphanage. He is in the process of being made a Saint in the roman >> Catholic Church. >> >> Yes, free speech gets ugly. But, there are two free speech issues here. >> One is the right of the owner of the car to put such a sticker on their >> car and the second is your right to post a picture of in on the internet. >> I support both. But, I also want to tell you that I found your picture >> profoundly offensive. Posting it may be a legitimate exercise of your >> rights to free speech, but I can tell you from my own experience that ti >> is also playing with fire. Ugly can be fanned into very real flames all >> too easily?. >> >> Barney >> >> >> E-Mail: bjq1 at mac.com >> Home: (301) 654-0938 >> Cell: (301) 775-1386 >> >> >> On Oct 16, 2012, at 02:36 PM, Jim Shulman <jshulman at judgecrater.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Unfortunately, free speech can be often really vile and ugly. Evidently >>> this fellow (or lady) feels confident enough to append the message to a >>> car worth several thousand dollars. In Philadelphia, the car wouldn't >>> last three blocks. >>> >>> Jim >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org >>> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org] On >>> Behalf >>> Of >>> philippe.amard >>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:57 PM >>> To: Leica Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: Do not >>> >>> Would end up in court over here - and rightly so. >>> >>> Outrageous! >>> >>> Ph >>> >>> >>> Le 16 oct. 12 ? 16:57, Jim Shulman a ?crit : >>> >>>> Probably a lot more pervasive than we'd like to believe. You have to >>>> go to the hinterlands in order to find someone who is comfortable >>>> pasting this on their car bumper. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Jim >>>> >>>> Off this weekend to photograph more ephemeral political message signs >>>> and other displays. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org >>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+jshulman=judgecrater.com at leica-users.org] On >>>> Behalf Of Chuck DeSantis >>>> Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 10:49 AM >>>> To: Leica Users Group >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: Do not >>>> >>>> Truly despicable! >>>> >>>> Chuck >>>> >>>> And yes, it takes something as vile as that to get me out of lurk >>>> mode. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/16/12 8:47 AM, Tina Manley wrote: >>>>> That is the worst bumper sticker I have ever seen! >>>>> >>>>> Tina >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 7:17 AM, Jim Shulman >>>> <jshulman at judgecrater.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/focusit/do+not+sm.jpg.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Leica M3, 28/3.5 CV, Neopan 100 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jim Shulman >>>>>> >>>>>> Wynnewood, PA >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information