Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/10/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Hendrix and Havens covered the song, in that order, which was written by Dylan, if memory serves me right, in his sojourn at Big Pink with The Band. Cheers Jayanand Sent from my iPad On 21-Oct-2011, at 9:14 PM, Ric Carter <ricc at embarqmail.com> wrote: > that's odd > > when i look it up on wiki, it says havens covered the dylan tune which was > written in 1967 > > it is one of his most covered songs, and i have never before heard that he > stole it from havens > > i'd love to see the article that refers to that--all i can find is one > reference in one anonymous comment on a marcus article > > thanks > > ric > > > > > > On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Chris Saganich wrote: > >> All along the watchtower is a Richie Havens song. Hendrix's version if so >> similar to how Havens plays, his guitar style (and a trained ear can hear >> it >> a mile away), that I suspect Havens is playing the acustic guitar on the >> track. Dylan coped songs from everyone he encountered, he was a sponge >> soaking it up and ringing it out, this was his genius. This is why he was >> so popular, everyone thinks they already know the song. No one ever >> accused >> him of being a master of originality, he was an absolute conformist who >> soaked up the normative culture and put it back out for consumption. >> That's >> why he had to break from it, he created a monster for himself. At some >> point early on he learned he could take full credit for thinly disguised >> traditional songs. This was a long standing tradition in the publishing >> industry except that the artists rarely received the publishing royalties. >> Perhaps Dylan though why should people like Howie Richmond, Harold >> Leventhal, and Pete Kameron get the publishing rights? An interesting >> copyright case study is the song "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and the tin Pan >> Alley practice of creating fake authors for slightly different versions of >> songs that were thought to be traditional; one might ask why publish >> under a >> pseudonym? Dylan obviously feels he can put his name on these slightly >> altered versions of other peoples work and collect the royalties. As a >> musician it was plausible that he actually wrote the music and authored >> the >> words, but as a painter we see how less plausible it actually is. >> >> All this BTW is plagiarized from Wikipedia but I added enough of my own >> thoughts to claim it is mine. >> >> Chris >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> >> wrote: >> >>> No, you're not mistaken. Joni Mitchell accused him of plagiarizing the >>> old >>> labor songs for his lyrics. >>> >>> Tina >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jean-Michel Mertz <j2m46 at hotmail.fr> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Well, yes, what's being creative? Is it pointing out what we hadn't seen >>> so >>>> far, putting things in a different perspective and giving us (the >>>> reader, >>>> the viewer, the listener ...) a new insight into the meaning of life, >>> since >>>> this is what we are all looking for? Is there a difference between >>>> Giacometti copying African art, La Fontaine plagiarizing Aesop and Bob >>>> Dylan using a series of photographies which are not of his own making? >>>> Actually, I think there are sources - archetypes - which are part of our >>>> heritage and which are being reinterpreted generation after generation >>>> by >>>> the ones we recognize - though it does take some time - as poets, >>> artists, >>>> etc. What do you call new and creative when someone wrote thousands of >>> years >>>> ago that "the thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that >>>> which is done, is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing >>> under >>>> the sun." Nevertheless I believe Bob Dylan should be open about his >>> sources. >>>> I think I've read somewhere that the lyrics of his famous "How many >>> times" >>>> or even of "The times they are a'changing" are not really his, but I >>> might >>>> be mistaken ...Jean-Michel > From: philippe.amard at sfr.fr >>>>> To: lug at leica-users.org >>>>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:05:28 +0200 >>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Plagarism >>>>> >>>>> Tina, >>>>> >>>>> I can't see where the problem lies in fact - a photo is a photo >>>>> alright, and a painting is a painting alright too - the art is >>>>> different, the crafting is also different - I dk if it makes sense to >>>>> anyone, but me... >>>>> Even though I bet those of us photogs who've used brushes in their >>>>> lives might concur. >>>>> >>>>> Most painters have been using photos or photographic techniques over >>>>> the years - from the Dutch masters to the super/hyper-realists. >>>>> Hockney also did both. >>>>> Most photogs have been influenced by painters, is that a problem? >>>>> I don't know a good photog who can disclaim this - HCB was so strict >>>>> on composition, inherited from, guess what ... >>>>> >>>>> For me it all boils down to: As a viewer, do I like it, or not? >>>>> whatever the gear. >>>>> >>>>> In the meantime, Van Gogh has now been killed by teenagers. A sign of >>>>> the times? >>>>> >>>>> Bien cordialement de Metz >>>>> Philippe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le 19 oct. 11 ? 16:52, Tina Manley a ?crit : >>>>> >>>>>> LUG: >>>>>> >>>>>> By Bob Dylan, no less: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>> http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/26/questions-raised-about-dylan-show-at-gagosian/?ref=artsf >>>>>> >>>>>> The other examples I've seen on the internet are exact copies of >>>>>> photographs, including those by Henri Cartier-Bresson. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have had several artists request to use my photos for their >>>>>> paintings. I >>>>>> always give permission with the qualification that they must include >>> a >>>>>> notice that the painting is based on a photo copyrighted by Tina >>>>>> Manley. >>>>>> Looks like Dylan failed to ask permission or even acknowledge that >>>>>> he uses >>>>>> photographs! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tina >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>>>>> www.tinamanley.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> NO ARCHIVE >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>> www.tinamanley.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Chris Saganich >> www.imagebrooklyn.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information