Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/05/04

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Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original)
From: sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter)
Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 15:05:38 -0500
References: <C9E71828.E353%mark@rabinergroup.com> <AFDC38A1-BCC8-4E75-A9D2-BC2443883F0B@usjet.net>

Brownie Hawkeye, French and American Versions used 620.


On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Robert Meier <robertmeier at usjet.net> 
wrote:

> RABS BEGINS!
>
>
> On May 4, 2011, at 1:50 PM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>
>  I love Brownie film.
>> And that is my understanding of what medium format film is called in
>> Japan.
>> So if I was listening to Japanese photographers talk to each other that
>> would be the word I'd be able to pick out.
>> What I'd like to know is is 120 film and 6x6 the first such film made? As
>> in
>> with the paper backing and spool configuration.
>>
>> The irony on the "Brownie" term is that many people here think of medium
>> format film as Hasselblad film. What goes in a  Hasselblad.  Which is the
>> exact other end of the spectrum as people think of such cameras as the
>> epitome of high end ness. While a brownie being the epitome of low end
>> ness.
>> So there is some irony there. Perhaps intended.
>>
>> My very first camera as a kid was a Brownie Starlet which used film on a
>> spool with a paper backing but as it turned out was a scaled down version
>> of
>> 120 6x6 film.  It was 127 film and was 4x4 cm's!
>> It took me awhile to figure out looking back that I started out shooting
>> squares. As I think the shooting of squares has been a very big deal in my
>> photo history much of my best work. And I took to it like a duck to water
>> with my first Rolleiflex in 1975 right out of school.
>>  I'd like to be shooting some squares today!
>> The Starlet was made both in Rochester and in Paris France.
>>
>> I took this picture with it from the top of the Empire State Building in
>> the
>> rain when I was nine in 1960, my first roll of film ever. Roll #1.
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/New+York+Cityx.jpg.html
>>
>> But my first camera  in around 1958 when I was 10-12 yrs old: (1960-2) was
>> a
>> Brownie Starlet which shot a mini 120 film called 127.
>> http://www.ken.lyndrup.dk/Engelsk/Kodak/Brownie%20Stralet%20Camera%20E.htm
>> http://www.geh.org/fm/brownie/htmlsrc/mE13000055_ful.html#topofimage
>> http://www.vieilalbum.com/BrownieStarletFR.htm
>> Manufactured : 1957-62 Lens : Dakon Shutter : Rotary
>> IMAGE SIZE: 1-5/8 x 1-5/8in.
>> (4.1275 inches according to the internet)
>> ((.1275 inch = 3.2385 millimeters))
>> ORIGINAL LIST PRICE: $5.95
>> Film Size : 127
>> Negative Size : 4x4 cm
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>> Mark William Rabiner
>>
>>
>>
>>  From: Slobodan Dimitrov <s.dimitrov at charter.net>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 06:33:48 -0700
>>> To: <rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com>, <rollei_list at freelists.org>
>>> Cc: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29
>>> Original)
>>>
>>> I just found out that next year, 2012, 120 film will be 100 years old.
>>> Anyone
>>> willing to do a celebratory project to commemorate the milestone?
>>> S.d.
>>>
>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>  From: Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza at yahoo.com.ar>
>>>> Date: May 4, 2011 1:53:25 AM PDT
>>>> To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>> Reply-To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>
>>>> Kirk:
>>>> 120 film was available from 1912 and the Rolleiflex was designed in
>>>> 1928, it
>>>> could be made to use 120 film but Heidecke wanted to keep the camera as
>>>> compact and small as posssible and then he chose the 117 film (B1-6).
>>>> The
>>>> Rolleiflex was a market successs and hardly the firsts users got it they
>>>> asked the factory about to adapt it to use longer film; F&H found a way
>>>> to
>>>> retrofit the camera for 620 film spools use with 12 frames.
>>>>
>>>> According the explanation in Claus Prochnow's Report 1, the 620 spools
>>>> larger
>>>> flanges made contact with the upper spool chamber and then it had to be
>>>> enlarged accordingly, the lower spool was housed in a cage and projected
>>>> slightly and then the camera back received two spherical cuts. The
>>>> camera
>>>> exterior was kept original without changes.
>>>>
>>>> The camera could also be adapted for 120 film at factory, but it
>>>> required
>>>> major changes with modifications even for the camera exterior (i.e. a
>>>> additional spool knob and a new wider transport knob with a groove) and
>>>> the
>>>> changes for the camera inside were significant too.
>>>> While the adaptation for 620 film looks pretty simple for a technician
>>>> wanting to do the task, the adaptation for 120 film looks more complex
>>>> requiring special parts, 120 spools had slight variants at the time and
>>>> the
>>>> adaptation needed to consider these variants.
>>>>
>>>> It was from January 1932 with the first Rolleiflex Standard model that
>>>> the
>>>> Rolleiflex cameras were made to use 120 film from factory. The 117 film
>>>> was
>>>> discontinued in 1949, F&H decision to adopt the 120 film size had
>>>> nothing to
>>>> do with the 117 film availability, the Rolleiflex users wanted a longer
>>>> film.
>>>>
>>>> Carlos
>>>>
>>>> PS:If you have the 620 spools, it's pretty easy to respool 120 film, the
>>>> only
>>>> difference 120-620 is the spool, film size is the same.
>>>>
>>>> --- El mi? 4-may-11, Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com> 
>>>> escribi?:
>>>>
>>>>  De: Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com>
>>>>> Asunto: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>>> Para: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> Fecha: mi?rcoles, 4 de mayo de 2011, 1:03
>>>>> Thanks, Richard, for having a go at
>>>>> it, but unfortunately those aren't solutions (if there are
>>>>> any).
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. No way 120, it's too fat. The early Rolleis used 117
>>>>> film.  Phillips explains that in 1929 it was the only
>>>>> size that had the frame numbers printed in the right place
>>>>> on the backing paper. 117 was 6 cm wide but had a thin
>>>>> spindle (making a thinner roll), small flanges, and
>>>>> different holes in the ends of the spools.
>>>>>
>>>>> When 117 was discontinued, many of the original Rolleis
>>>>> were converted to 620 film (which is still available from
>>>>> B&H). 620 has a skinny spindle and small flanges like
>>>>> 117, but it required a modification of the cameras: a
>>>>> different-sized left bump and right key to engage the
>>>>> take-up spool. These are the conversion parts I have some
>>>>> small hope of finding, if anyone knows of an old Rollei
>>>>> burial site where such things can be found.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Years of experience have proved that klutzes like me do
>>>>> not work on their own cameras. So I still want to know if
>>>>> there's a classic camera repairman who retains old parts and
>>>>> skills. (Fleenor and Krikor don't work on these.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Kirk
>>>>>
>>>>
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-- 
Regards,

Sonny
http://sonc.com/look/
Natchitoches, Louisiana

USA


Replies: Reply from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29Original))
Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))
Reply from pdzwig at summaventures.com (Peter Dzwig) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))