Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/09/23

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Subject: [Leica] Salgado S2 now DR contrast
From: philippe.amard at sfr.fr (philippe.amard)
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:45:32 +0200
References: <p06240803c8c0158f06c7@[192.168.1.107]> <C8BFF339.3DE2%mark@rabinergroup.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20100923122805.046b0098@med.cornell.edu>

all look very harsh on my screen - could be the screen - yet the skin  
texture in the young lady and kid is what I would definitely avoid to  
get on young subjects.
I'm not Salgado after all :-)
Ph

Le 23 sept. 10 ? 18:41, Chris Saganich a ?crit :

>
>
> Yea, contrast is a light thing.  I keep proper hoods on always and  
> it helps.  Here are some examples of DR images of varying contrast  
> the only difference being the light and exposure as I use the same  
> film and processing.
>
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2010/bs026.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/street_pages_2010/bs029.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20284.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20274.htm
>
> Similar era Elmarit 50mm/2.8
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20298.htm
>
> http://www.imagebrooklyn.com/Family%20Album/Friends%20Family%20Pages/FF%20297.htm
>
>
>
> At 05:54 PM 9/22/2010, you wrote:
>
>
>
>> I agree A lower contrast lens is "poorly implemented".
>> In most cases though its an old lens from many previous decades  
>> which people
>> are loving the characteristics of through the filter of their  
>> nostalgia.
>> The lens is just old. In many cases needs to be cleaned.
>> In modern terms its just a lower end lens. A lens in which less  
>> money has
>> been invested. In older terms a lens with no or more privative  
>> coatings and
>> with a more primitive optical design from what they knew then with  
>> more
>> privative glass choice possibilities. And no pocket calculators  
>> helping them
>> out.
>>
>> To make an image from a lower contrast optic means we have to jack  
>> up the
>> contrast in the end. Resulting in more grain or noise. We then deal  
>> with
>> that.
>>
>> Lower contrast optics are lovingly descried as "easier to print"  
>> but I've
>> always found them more difficult to print as I've said above..  And  
>> I've
>> seen few actually examples of these "easier to print" lenses on my  
>> screen or
>> in hand.
>>
>> I'm not sure if the Leica M 50/2 Dual Range Summicron is a classic  
>> example
>> of a lower contrast optic or not. I don't think low contrast is the  
>> defining
>> characteristic of this lens. I think it has a bundle of positive  
>> attributes
>> and may be a tad low in the contrast end. I'd love to be using one.
>>
>> --------------------
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photography
>> mark at rabinergroup.com
>>
>>
>> > From: Herbert Kanner <kanner at acm.org>
>> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> > Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 13:29:20 -0700
>> > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Salgado S2
>> >
>> > As someone who was once a physicist before I went really wrong and
>> > became an incompetent computer programmer (Physics Ph.D. 1951, U.  
>> of
>> > Chicago) I want to comment on what could make a "low contrast  
>> lens".
>> > A lens per se cannot manipulate contrast, it merely refracts what  
>> is
>> > there. But miscellaneous scattered light not coming from the image
>> > will reduce contrast as if the film (or sensor) had been exposed  
>> to a
>> > low level of miscellaneous distributed light before or after the
>> > actual taking of the picture. It is the same phenomenon that we try
>> > to avoid by using a lens hood: scattered light inside the lens. So,
>> > in my opinion, a "low contrast lens" is just a poorly implemented
>> > lens: failure to coat internal elements, shiny internal structural
>> > parts, whatever.
>> >
>> > Herb
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> If Salgato is looking for a  "low contrast lens" then it would  
>> have been
>> >> better he took some photo courses instead of economic courses As  
>> that's
>> >> photo dumb stuff 101. He's thinking a "low contrast lens" will  
>> give him more
>> >> latitude he's wrong. Presumptuous of me to say? Well you do hear  
>> some real
>> >> misconceptions about basic photo craft coming from some top  
>> level people old
>> >> timers or young timers.  People who go to school to methodically  
>> study
>> >> something but when they switch to photography when they get out  
>> they decide
>> >> they're just going to be self taught deal. With photography  
>> being mainly an
>> >> avocation  or self taught vocation there's going to be lots of  
>> wrong stuff
>> >> floating around. And now we have the internet.
>> >>
>> >> --------------------
>> >> Mark William Rabiner
>> >> Photography
>> >> mark at rabinergroup.com
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> From: Richard Man <richard at imagecraft.com>
>> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> >>> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 22:23:01 -0700
>> >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Salgado S2
>> >>>
>> >>> Heh, my summary of the talk I attended by Mr. Salgado a couple  
>> years which
>> >>> has pretty much the exact information is still my most popular  
>> blog post.
>> >>> People still find it and link to it...
>> >>>
>> >>> There is no evidence that he has switch to the S2... yet. He  
>> said he is
>> >>> looking for "low contrast" lens so I'm not sure whether the S2  
>> lens would
>> >>> do...
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Sep 21, 2010 at 10:15 PM, Mark Rabiner
>> >> <mark at rabinergroup.com>wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> " On a more technical front, Sebastiao Salgado spoke about  
>> film vs.
>> >>>> digital.
>> >>>> He no longer shoots with film as the reasons to go digital  
>> mounted up.?The
>> >>>> silver in current medium format films, are currently at levels  
>> that 35mm
>> >>>> was
>> >>>> 25 years ago.?The 600 rolls of 220 he carried on shoots  
>> weighed about 60
>> >>>> lbs.?After 9/11 the security checkpoint that he goes through  
>> with exposed
>> >>>> film (he told us 7 on the last trip) has affected the grain and
>> >> contrast of
>> >>>> the exposed film.?Plus there was the inevitable fight at each
>> >> checkpoint to
>> >>>> hand check the film. His assistant almost quit on his last  
>> trip from the
>> >>>> constant battles.?So now it's a Canon DSLR for him. 21  
>> megapixels strong.
>> >>>> But he is also looking at that new LeicaS2 with 37 megapixels.? 
>> And his
>> >>>> "film"? about 1.5 lbs of cards."
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >> http://www.examiner.com/photography-in-national/sebastiao-salgado-the-genesi
>> >>>>
>> >> s-project<http://www.examiner.com/photography-in-national/sebastiao-salgado-t
>> >>  
>> >>>> he-genesi%0As-project>
>> >>>> Or
>> >>>> http://tinyurl.com/365nozf
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>> >>> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.wordpress.com>
>> >>> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
>> >>> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include  
>> all previous
>> >>> replies in your msgs. ]
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Leica Users Group.
>> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>> information
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Leica Users Group.
>> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>> information
>> >
>> > --
>> > Herbert Kanner
>> > kanner at acm.org
>> > 650-326-8204
>> >
>> > Do not meddle in the affairs of cats,
>> > for they are subtle and will pee
>> > on your computer!
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>> information
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> Chris Saganich MS, CPH
> Senior Physicist, Office of Health Physics
> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
> New York Presbyterian Hospital
> chs2018 at med.cornell.edu
> http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/
> Ph. 212.746.6964
> Fax. 212.746.4800
> Office A-0049
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>




Replies: Reply from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Salgado S2 now DR contrast)
In reply to: Message from kanner at acm.org (Herbert Kanner) ([Leica] Salgado S2)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Salgado S2)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Salgado S2 now DR contrast)