Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/12/17

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Subject: [Leica] I wish the LUG was a harsher place. (Long Ramble)
From: bjq1 at mac.com (Barney Quinn)
Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:42:39 -0500
References: <EC10B939-B133-4C32-A7EC-4574E142A216@gmail.com> <2E9E9404-FC46-461F-AB01-EE468E8BC336@mac.com> <7f871f630912162119q6fd5ee70yf7bf33a3461a89e3@mail.gmail.com> <36172e5a0912170440v2816101av457c543c4f3feccd@mail.gmail.com>

Some quick thoughts. I am not a particularly good critic and I know  
that. I have a policy that if I can't say something nice I probably  
will not say anything at all, although silence doesn't mean that I  
don't like an image. You can't reply to everything. If several people  
have already more or less said what I would say about an image then I  
tens not to say anything.

Kind words can serve a useful purpose. If they motivate someone to  
keep picking up their camera and to keep shooting then I think that is  
a good thing. There us nothing wrong with positive feedback.

Barney

Barney Quinn, WK3Z
C: (301) 775-1386
H: (301) 654-0938

On Dec 17, 2009, at 7:40 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com>  
wrote:

> Hi Neil. I think this is a worthwhile topic and that you have raised  
> some
> thoughtful points.
> Here are some comments from me.
> I agree with your impression that non-memorable images tend to  
> garner little
> on-list response and also that we often see more reactions, including
> praise, on higher profile contributor's work.
> I think that there are a number of factors at work.
> The LUG is a social group with friends and personalities and a broad  
> range
> of relationships and expectations.
> The volume too means that people will inevitably be selective and of  
> course
> have varying interests.
> I certainly make more efforts for friends and filter others. I'm  
> sure that
> both of those apply in reverse with others when I post too, of  
> course. A
> core of members, including myself, post a lot and there is a risk of  
> serial
> overposting (guilty!) so often I will discuss work with friends off  
> list
> rather than post again. Some measures to ameleriorate that volume get
> suggested occasionally, such as posting thank you's and attaboys off- 
> list.
>
> In my opinion, the best way to encourage more detailed and active  
> comments
> on your own work is simply to make the effort yourself to post the  
> type of
> response that you would like to receive from your own picture posts.  
> It
> takes considerable effort.
> Leap in. If you have a different viewpoint on a comment, post a few  
> lines,
> ask why or say where you differ.
> Lots of members look at everything posted about their images and  
> evaluate
> the comments. Candidly, I always take into account my own views of the
> commenter's work or experience etc etc. Again to encourage discussion,
> reciprocate in kind.
>
>
>
>
>>>
>>>  I bought an M9 recently and a few lenses,  revived my dormant
>>>> photography habit and started posting to the LUG again.  In that  
>>>> short
>> time
>>>> I think my photography has improved and its all down to people  
>>>> being
>> honest
>>>> with me.
>>>>
>>>> The most important thing I've learned since getting the M9 is  
>>>> what kind
>> of
>>>> photographer I want to be.  I don't do beautiful landscapes  
>>>> because I
>>>> haven't got the patience or inclination to get up at 4 in the  
>>>> morning
>> for
>>>> the right light or spend hours in photoshop honing a print and I  
>>>> also
>> know
>>>> that I'd still be pretty bad at it because frankly I find most  
>>>> landscape
>>>> photography boring. I'd rather just go there on my bike and look  
>>>> at the
>>>> scenery.  I'll never be a photojournalist because I think to do it
>> justice
>>>> you need to immerse yourself in your subject and make sure that  
>>>> your
>>>> pictures tell the whole story you wanted to tell.  I have a young  
>>>> family
>> and
>>>> a full time job and this means that my pictures are limited to my
>> children
>>>> (and I don't post those anywhere) and the things I see in London  
>>>> in my
>> 30-40
>>>> minute walks two or three times a week and on my cycle ride to the
>> railway
>>>> station.  The pictures I try to take now show what I see in such  
>>>> short
>> time
>>>> periods.
>>>>
>>>> This group is a great place to force you into some self- 
>>>> reflection. For
>>>> example some pictures I took of a climate camp in Trafalgar  
>>>> Square were
>>>> failures because I didn't have the time to spend building the  
>>>> story and
>> the
>>>> subject demanded nothing less.   This was pointed out to me pretty
>> quickly.
>>>> A few years ago Ted laid into a picture I took of a street singer  
>>>> in
>> New
>>>> York because it said nothing and he was absolutely right, it was  
>>>> a duff
>>>> picture.  The upshot of all this is that I'm pretty certain now  
>>>> when I
>> take
>>>> a picture about what I'm trying to say or show and am much more  
>>>> severe
>> with
>>>> myself when I'm editing if the picture doesn't match the idea.   
>>>> This
>> makes
>>>> it much easier to explain what I saw in a picture if I think its a
>> keeper.
>>>>
>>>> I've learned a lot from the negative criticism my pictures  
>>>> receive and
>>>> almost nothing from the praise (although I've got an ego like  
>>>> everyone
>> else
>>>> and all praise is welcome).  I think the LUG can be a bit too  
>>>> gentle on
>>>> posters some times, perhaps with the idea that any photographic  
>>>> effort
>>>> should be encouraged.  I'd love to see much more questioning of  
>>>> posters
>>>> about why they think their picture works and much more honesty if  
>>>> stuff
>> is
>>>> just no good.  I've noticed that bad photographs tend to get  
>>>> ignored
>> rather
>>>> than actively criticised while good ones get loads of responses.  
>>>> This is
>> a
>>>> shame, really good pictures aren't the ones that need criticism  
>>>> although
>> I
>>>> can understand that this is quite a friendly place and we want to  
>>>> be
>> nice to
>>>> each other.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, thanks to anyone who's said they liked my pictures and  
>>>> many many
>>>> thanks to people who said they didn't.
>>>>
>>>> Neil
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>> --
>> Cheers
>> Geoff
>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from neilbeddoe at googlemail.com (Neil Beddoe) ([Leica] I wish the LUG was a harsher place. (Long Ramble))
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] I wish the LUG was a harsher place. (Long Ramble))
Message from mknawabi.lug at gmail.com (Yama Nawabi) ([Leica] I wish the LUG was a harsher place. (Long Ramble))
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] I wish the LUG was a harsher place. (Long Ramble))