Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/01/18

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Subject: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
From: sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner)
Date: Sun Jan 18 06:56:45 2009
References: <20090117005558.PDMF18445.eastrmmtao103.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net><50574752-F044-4C51-8968-0897EA414D3D@usjet.net><8979E64B1EDA477ABC75864ED34F5487@D1S9FY41><C029DA3B-B043-4E22-A229-7AE02D20C699@usjet.net><D64F863506B54290A141DFAFCDDBF6C1@D1S9FY41><167579D7-2CC5-4041-95CA-12272DC465C6@usjet.net><8DBC9D91FE9E47D7AAF8F8956014C5D8@D1S9FY41><625CEE04-9886-4546-A2D3-5F377976EC01@usjet.net><CC28F634F2884798B2D730292619B0B5@D1S9FY41><B36BFE01-2F4F-44DE-9A2B-4AE49D1A51A6@usjet.net><B94C48D6CA334B7CB89F7BB096315EB3@D1S9FY41> <808811CE-A39D-468A-BCDF-23150A56ADC2@cox.net>

Actually Steve, I've never used the pre-ASPH Summicron but have heard the 
same things you have. The 35mm that I use is the 35/2,8 Summaron that we 
tested vs. the pre-ASPH and the 8-element Summicrons on the Optikos 
Corporation MTF optical test bench; see the article in LHSA Viewfinder 
magazine, Vol 37 No 4 (4th qtr 04). Showed pretty clearly that if you don't 
need the added stop of speed, the Summaron was the choice.

I'd attach a copy of the manuscript but I think Brian's software strips away 
attachments

Seth

Seth

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Barbour" <kididdoc@cox.net>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron


>
> On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>
>> All different optical designs. All are Gauss derivatives. #1 is an 8-
>> element, #2 and 3 are 6-element with slight differences (in #2 the
>> second and third elements are cemented together whereas in #3 they
>> are separated by air, sometimes called an "air lens" for the
>> different refracting effect of air vis-a-vis glass,  and #4,
>> frequently referred to as the "pre-aspheric", is 7-element with
>> elements 2 & 3 and elements 6 & 7 cemented together.
>
> some love especially  #4, calling it the bokeh king.
>
> I love that lens... what are your thoughts Seth?
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>> If you're really interested in this stuff, Erwin Puts' book, "Leica
>> Lens Compendium" is an excellent resource, though in it Erwin
>> occasionally expresses opinions with which I have disagreed
>> publicly. Seth
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier" <robertmeier@usjet.net
>> >
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 7:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>
>>
>>> They both have the full ring, serrated over about 270 degrees of it,
>>> the aperture numbers the rest of the way.   So, they are BOTH version
>>> 3 -- that is surprising, good news.   But all four versions are the
>>> same optically, aren't  they?    Bob
>>>
>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 6:30 PM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bob, I've just taken a look at Erwin Puts' book and see that he
>>>> puts the intro of version 3 in 1971 that would make both of your
>>>> lenses version 3's. One other way to determine to which group your
>>>> earlier lens belongs is ask if the diaphragm is controlled by a
>>>> small tab that protrudes from the lens mount or by a more typical
>>>> ring. If the former, it is version 2, if the latter, they're both
>>>> version 3.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 6:12 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> My other Summicron 35 is 2619853, which the list puts as only a
>>>>> year
>>>>> newer (thanks Arche), but this one is mint.   I thought the newer
>>>>> one
>>>>> is version 3, but now I'm not sure.
>>>>> Bob
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 3:24 PM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Same series (version), Bob?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 4:10 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seth,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's a very impressive story, both about how well built a Leica
>>>>>>> lens is, and how good the Leica New Jersey service is/was.   I
>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>> reconsider selling this lens, except I have another one that is
>>>>>>> newer
>>>>>>> and is even nicer!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 12:37 PM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Bob, the lists I have show that your 35/2 Summicron is from
>>>>>>>> 1972
>>>>>>>> production that commenced at #2503101 through 2556500. I believe
>>>>>>>> that Steve's serial numbers refer only to cameras. I bought
>>>>>>>> one of
>>>>>>>> these lenses shortly after their introduction in 1969 or 70.
>>>>>>>> Was in
>>>>>>>> my kit for a four-week visit to South and East Africa = 700+
>>>>>>>> Kodachromes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One afternoon in our hotel room in Nairobi after returning
>>>>>>>> from an
>>>>>>>> 8-day tour of the Serengeti, I put down my M4 w/ 35/2 Summicron
>>>>>>>> attached to answer the phone. I had forgotten to twist the
>>>>>>>> lens to
>>>>>>>> full lock. When I picked it up, the lens plunged onto a tile
>>>>>>>> floor,
>>>>>>>> bending the rear flange. I literally burst into sweat, told my
>>>>>>>> wife
>>>>>>>> that I had to go for a short walk to calm down. Returned to
>>>>>>>> hotel
>>>>>>>> room, looked once again at bent flange, shook lens vigorously to
>>>>>>>> ascertain if there were loose glass elements, diaphragm blades
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> other un-Leica-like anomalies,  etc, tried it on the M4 to
>>>>>>>> which it
>>>>>>>> seemd to mate as usual. Had no back-up 35mm so used it balance
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the trip. On return to NYC, I called Vince Fochtman, the lens
>>>>>>>> guy
>>>>>>>> at Leitz/Rockleigh whom I knew pretty well, told him the story
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> said I was sending him the lens; if there was damage to the
>>>>>>>> glass
>>>>>>>> or mechanicals that could not be made perfect,  please just
>>>>>>>> return
>>>>>>>> the lens with a bill and I would sell it and find another; if it
>>>>>>>> could be made optically and mechanically flawless despite
>>>>>>>> cosmetic
>>>>>>>> flaws, please repair the lens. A week passed, my lens returned
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> a Leitz invoice that had no charge. I called Vince and
>>>>>>>> inquired. He
>>>>>>>> said the lens was fine, glass clean, clear, not decentered a
>>>>>>>> micron, just as good as it had come from Wetzlar; he had been
>>>>>>>> able
>>>>>>>> very gently and little by little to bend the bent- out-of-shape
>>>>>>>> flange into perfect alignment, didn't need any parts, so no
>>>>>>>> charge!
>>>>>>>> Talk about robust fortress-like construction! I would like to
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> that current production is just as strong. Who knows?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Enjoy your Summicron!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Seth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:19 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seth,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks for that confirmation.   Where can I go to check the
>>>>>>>>> serial
>>>>>>>>> numbers of lenses?   All I know about is Stephen Gandy's
>>>>>>>>> lists of
>>>>>>>>> body serial numbers.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jan 17, 2009, at 7:06 AM, Seth Rosner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it is indeed the second version
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Meier"
>>>>>>>>>> <robertmeier@usjet.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 8:02 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS 35mm Summicron
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a 35mm Summicron, pre-aspheric, that shows wear on the
>>>>>>>>>>> barrel
>>>>>>>>>>> (no dents or dings) and has mint glass.  With both caps.   I
>>>>>>>>>>> think it
>>>>>>>>>>> is 2nd version, but I'm not sure.   The serial number is
>>>>>>>>>>> 2541855,
>>>>>>>>>>> $750
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------  
>>>>>>>>>> -- -- -- ----------
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release
>>>>>>>>>> Date:
>>>>>>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.10.8/1898 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>>> information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>>>>> information
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> ----------
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
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>> 1/16/2009 3:09 PM
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


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Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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5:50 PM


Replies: Reply from s.dimitrov at charter.net (Slobodan Dimitrov) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
In reply to: Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] more audiophilia)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from sethrosner at nycap.rr.com (Seth Rosner) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] FS 35mm Summicron)