Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/01/15
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Yeah. And there is a taped conversation (rare) with Field Marshal Mannerheim of Finland and Adolf Hitler on Mannerheim?s birthday 4.6.1942 in which Hitler boasts that the Germans have destroyed 35000 Russian tanks and that if any of his generals had said before the Operation Barbarossa that the Russians had had 35000 tanks, he would have been considered insane. Now we know who was. All the best! Raimo K Personal photography homepage at: http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp@gmx.de> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: Re: [Leica] There's something about German design ... > Raimo, > that's what happened at Stalingrad too - the logistics just didn't work - > G?ring promised Hitler 1700 tons of supplies per day when he knew full > well he could only deliver 72 tons a day by air. > Douglas > > Raimo K wrote: >> The biggest shortage that the Germans faced was lack of fuel - IIRC for >> the Battle of the Bulge the German tanks and aircraft had fuel for 5 >> days. Later aircraft and tanks were abandoned in perfect working order >> because there was no fuel. >> All the best! >> Raimo K >> Personal photography homepage at: >> http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "GREG LORENZO" <gregj.lorenzo@shaw.ca> >> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> >> Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:08 PM >> Subject: Re: [Leica] There's something about German design ... >> >> >>> Marc James Small writes in part: >>> >>>> >>>> The M4 Sherman has received a lot of hostility >>>> from the Disdain and Hysteria Channels in recent >>>> years but this is undeserved. It was a solid >>>> vehicle capable of solid work. Sure, it had >>>> limitations but one part of doctrine is to teach >>>> soldiers how to make the best of their gear and, >>>> in the end, the Sherman turned into a real >>>> workhorse which effectively crushed German armor by early 1945. >>> >>> This is not corrrect, most German armor on the Western Front was put out >>> of action by air power (i.e. rocket firing Typhoons, etc.) and to a >>> lesser degree by anti-tank guns. A significant amount of German >>> equipment, including tanks was abandoned in perfect working condition >>> when the Germans retreated east after the battle of Falaise. Germany had >>> no effective airforce left to provide battlefield cover at this point in >>> the war and could only move effectively at night. >>> >>>> To put it a different way, if the Panther and the >>>> Tiger were so great, and the Sherman so lousy, >>>> how then did we win the War? If the >>>> Messerschmidt and the Focke-Wulf were so >>>> superior, and the P-47 and P-51 so bad, why did >>>> the Germans have no air cover left by the time of >>>> OVERLORD? The true answer, of course, is that >>>> our gear worked better, all in all, than did >>>> theirs, and our doctrine was superior, so that we >>>> were able to grind them into little bitty pieces by early 1945. >>>> >>> >>> This is also incorrect (except for the fact that Germany had no air >>> force to speak of at this point). German prop fighter aircraft were just >>> as good as allied aircraft. Their jet aircraft clearly superior. They >>> lacked trained pilots after 1942. >>> >>> World War II was won primarily on the Eastern Front by the **Soviet >>> Union**. This is summed up nicely by the author Charles B. MacDonald in >>> his book "World War II: The War Against Germany and Italy". >>> >>> MacDonald wrote the following paragraph: >>> >>> * "The German armed forces and the nation were prostrate, beaten to a >>> degree never before seen in modern times. Hardly any organized units of >>> the German Army remained except in Norway, Czechoslovakia, and the >>> Balkans, and these would soon capitulate. What remained of the air arm >>> was too demoralized even for a final suicidal effort, and the residue of >>> the German Navy lay helpless in captured northern ports. Through five >>> years of war, the German armed forces had lost over 3 million men >>> killed, 263,000 of them in the west, since D-day. The United States lost >>> 135,576 dead in Western Europe, while Britain, Canada, France, and other >>> Allies incurred after D-day approximately 60,000 military deaths." >>> >>> * Source: Army Historical Series, Office of The Chief of Military >>> History, US Army. >>> >>> On land, the Western Allies (primarily the USA) in WWII clearly won the >>> Pacific War against Japan. North Africa, Italy and Western Europe were >>> very much a side show in the fight against Germany. Strategic bombing of >>> German plants and cities and German occupied Europe and naval actions >>> excepted. >>> >>> >>> Greg J. Lorenzo >>> Calgary, Alberta >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information