Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/01/15

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Subject: [Leica] There's something about German design ...
From: raimo.m.korhonen at uusikaupunki.fi (Raimo K)
Date: Mon Jan 15 08:43:50 2007
References: <200701150418.l0F4IlM8086419@server1.waverley.reid.org><315738.85149.qm@web90412.mail.mud.yahoo.com><200701150654.l0F6svXV004648@server1.waverley.reid.org> <cee6b34c9fba.45ab44a8@shaw.ca>

The biggest shortage that the Germans faced was lack of fuel - IIRC for the 
Battle of the Bulge the German tanks and aircraft had fuel for 5 days. Later 
aircraft and tanks were abandoned in perfect working order because there was 
no fuel.
All the best!
Raimo K
Personal photography homepage at:
http://www.uusikaupunki.fi/~raikorho


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "GREG LORENZO" <gregj.lorenzo@shaw.ca>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] There's something about German design ...


> Marc James Small writes in part:
>
>>
>> The M4 Sherman has received a lot of hostility
>> from the Disdain and Hysteria Channels in recent
>> years but this is undeserved.  It was a solid
>> vehicle capable of solid work.  Sure, it had
>> limitations but one part of doctrine is to teach
>> soldiers how to make the best of their gear and,
>> in the end, the Sherman turned into a real
>> workhorse which effectively crushed German armor by early 1945.
>
> This is not corrrect, most German armor on the Western Front was put out 
> of action by air power (i.e. rocket firing Typhoons, etc.) and to a lesser 
> degree by anti-tank guns. A significant amount of German equipment, 
> including tanks was abandoned in perfect working condition when the 
> Germans retreated east after the battle of Falaise. Germany had no 
> effective airforce left to provide battlefield cover at this point in the 
> war and could only move effectively at night.
>
>> To put it a different way, if the Panther and the
>> Tiger were so great, and the Sherman so lousy,
>> how then did we win the War?  If the
>> Messerschmidt and the Focke-Wulf were so
>> superior, and the P-47 and P-51 so bad, why did
>> the Germans have no air cover left by the time of
>> OVERLORD?  The true answer, of course, is that
>> our gear worked better, all in all, than did
>> theirs, and our doctrine was superior, so that we
>> were able to grind them into little bitty pieces by early 1945.
>>
>
> This is also incorrect (except for the fact that Germany had no air force 
> to speak of at this point). German prop fighter aircraft were just as good 
> as allied aircraft. Their jet aircraft clearly superior. They lacked 
> trained pilots after 1942.
>
> World War II was won primarily on the Eastern Front by the **Soviet 
> Union**. This is summed up nicely by the author Charles B. MacDonald in 
> his book "World War II: The War Against Germany and Italy".
>
> MacDonald wrote the following paragraph:
>
> * "The German armed forces and the nation were prostrate, beaten to a 
> degree never before seen in modern times. Hardly any organized units of 
> the German Army remained except in Norway, Czechoslovakia, and the 
> Balkans, and these would soon capitulate. What remained of the air arm was 
> too demoralized even for a final suicidal effort, and the residue of the 
> German Navy lay helpless in captured northern ports. Through five years of 
> war, the German armed forces had lost over 3 million men killed, 263,000 
> of them in the west, since D-day. The United States lost 135,576 dead in 
> Western Europe, while Britain, Canada, France, and other Allies incurred 
> after D-day approximately 60,000 military deaths."
>
> * Source: Army Historical Series, Office of The Chief of Military History, 
> US Army.
>
> On land, the Western Allies (primarily the USA) in WWII clearly won the 
> Pacific War against Japan. North Africa, Italy and Western Europe were 
> very much a side show in the fight against Germany. Strategic bombing of 
> German plants and cities and German occupied Europe and naval actions 
> excepted.
>
>
> Greg J. Lorenzo
> Calgary, Alberta
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information 


Replies: Reply from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
In reply to: Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from wrs111445 at yahoo.com (Bill Smith) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from marcsmall at comcast.net (Marc James Small) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)
Message from gregj.lorenzo at shaw.ca (GREG LORENZO) ([Leica] There's something about German design ...)