Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/07/10

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Subject: [Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......
From: bcaldwell51 at earthlink.net (Bryan Caldwell)
Date: Fri, 10 Jul 2015 17:00:59 -0700
References: <7978603.1436306827582.JavaMail.root@elwamui-muscovy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <54505E90-C6EC-4D1A-B62E-60DE203F17E0@frozenlight.eu> <559D0734.1070607@summaventures.com> <AF7C3012-25DC-4B7A-A6B5-6ABE743C3DB0@earthlink.net> <CAFfkXxu5LnTvUEHSWn6__6WW93=8RKQateOdE-652T28zOXNNg@mail.gmail.com>

Just remember that no matter how much information you gather, ?fair use? is 
a legal term of art. The only person who can say for certain that a 
particular use is fair use is, in the U.S., a federal judge and/or jury. And 
even then, a federal appellate court might take a different view.

Bryan Caldwell




> On Jul 8, 2015, at 8:17 AM, Sonny Carter <sonc.hegr at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Here's a link that explains Fair Use nicely.
> 
> http://library.nsula.edu/fair-use/
> 
> (Notice I attributed it before I *fairly used* it on the University 
> Webpage)
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Bryan Caldwell <bcaldwell51 at 
> earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> I did some checking (I?m an attorney) and much of this material is subject
>> to a U.S. Copyright of 95 years without having to be renewed. Whether or
>> not they are of historical significance is legally irrelevant, just as
>> whether they are still in print is irrelevant. It is the copyright 
>> holder?s
>> choice as to what is done with them. If the copyright holder chose to
>> destroy them they would be completely entitled to do so.
>> 
>> ?Fair use? is a term of art in copyright law. Two things that argue
>> strongly against this falling within the fair use exception is that the
>> works are reproduced in their entirety and that they are posted for
>> download to all comers. My strong suspicion is that this would not fall
>> within the fair use exception. Any disclaimer accompanying the downloads 
>> is
>> meaningless.
>> 
>> Another way to look at this is to ask yourself how you would feel if
>> someone gained access to your photographs and, without your permission,
>> posted them to the world for download.
>> 
>> There are some potential sub-issues here as well. I assume that Leica
>> Fotographie obtained releases from the photographers whose work is 
>> involved
>> (as well as those photographers obtaining release from their subjects) and
>> those releases may have been for limited use - a single publication, for
>> instance. This current use may not just be infringing upon Leica
>> Fotographie?s copyright, but against the copyright holders of the content
>> within.
>> 
>> As much as I would like to, I will not be downloading any of this.
>> 
>> Bryan Caldwell
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jul 8, 2015, at 4:19 AM, Peter Dzwig <pdzwig at summaventures.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I agree, obviously I wish that he had got Leica's permission. I presume
>> all the
>>> photogs ceded at least some of their rights to Leica.
>>> 
>>> If he is intending to create an archive of issues for public access and
>> with at
>>> least a reasonable lifespan, then he is performing a service both to the
>> Leica
>>> community and to photography as a whole, using copies which we assume
>> that he
>>> purchased himself.
>>> 
>>> However I doubt that the archive will have permanence beyond maybe ten
>> years or
>>> so, unless others get involved and Leica give it their blessing.
>>> 
>>> Obviously I understand your perspective but there is a tension here. If
>> nothing
>>> were done a resource of historical importance - to some, at least -
>> would be
>>> lost. How do we resolve the issue between preserving an archive of any
>> sort and
>>> copyright in this fast changing world? Private collections always were
>> the route
>>> to preservation. There would after all be no British Museum without the
>> Cotton
>>> Collection and bequest.
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>> On 08/07/2015 06:18, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>>>> Exactly!
>>>> 
>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>> 
>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>>> 
>>>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator
>>>> 
>>>> YNWA
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 08 Jul 2015, at 00:07, Bryan Caldwell <bcaldwell51 at earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The fact that something is out of print does not mean the copyright
>> has lapsed. And, a disclaimer does not establish fair use. If the 
>> copyright
>> holder chooses to challenge the use, that will be decided in a court of
>> law. A disclaimer is no defense. Either it is fair use or it isn't.
>> Something reproduced in its entirety tends to argue against fair use. Fair
>> use is much more likely to apply to excerpts from protected material.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Bryan Caldwell
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Bill Clough <billclough042541 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Sent: Jul 7, 2015 10:14 AM
>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Went to the download site an d got the 404 message.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --Bill
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Nathan Wajsman <nwajsman at 
>>>>>> gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> OK, looking at this ?disclaimer?:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ?These long out-of-print reference materials are presented under fair
>>>>>>> use?no challenge to any copyright held by Leica Camera is intended.?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My question is answered.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 07 Jul 2015, at 07:10, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Is this legal?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Alicante, Spain
>>>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cycling: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/belgiangator
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> YNWA
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 07 Jul 2015, at 07:03, Frank Filippone <red735i at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Per www.Leicarumors.com
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The website LeicaPhotographyArchive started uploading online scans
>> of
>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>> Leica Photography magazines that can be used as a reference for
>> anything
>>>>>>>>> related to Leica cameras and Leitz company. All scanned magazines
>> can be
>>>>>>>>> accessed here. You can add the scans to your Google drive and then
>>>>>>> download
>>>>>>>>> them (total of 876MB so far). This is an ongoing project, so check
>> the
>>>>>>>>> website in the future for new additions to the archive. Here is a
>>>>>>> screenshot
>>>>>>>>> of the currently available issues:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Go here..
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8lOGuzhswtkfkpycElRWGdNN0NvbjdJek1Y
>>>>>>>>> cHNmVnFyQVJTSUlScURhWTZJdVo1d1JDZGs
>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>> 
>> https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B8lOGuzhswtkfkpycElRWGdNN0NvbjdJek1
>>>>>>>>> YcHNmVnFyQVJTSUlScURhWTZJdVo1d1JDZGs&usp=sharing> &usp=sharing
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Frank Filippone
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Red735i at verizon.net
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> ===========================================================
>>> Dr Peter Dzwig
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Sonny
> http://sonc.com/look/
> Natchitoches, Louisiana
> 1714
> Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
> 
> USA
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from bcaldwell51 at earthlink.net (Bryan Caldwell) ([Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......)
Message from nwajsman at gmail.com (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......)
Message from pdzwig at summaventures.com (Peter Dzwig) ([Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......)
Message from bcaldwell51 at earthlink.net (Bryan Caldwell) ([Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] Leica Fotographie Magazine downloads......)