Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/07/02
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Damn it, Chris, you should know better than to compare feelings and reality on the same value scale. It's like comparing apples to oranges. Feelings can be important, and the sooner you realize it the better. Using language, intended or not, that could injure feelings only dilutes the understanding of the realities in you message. Also, you should know that strong wording that is acceptable in conversation may be questionable in a written message. Herb P.S. Uncle Ted: This goes for you too! Herbert Kanner kanner at acm.org 650-326-8204 Question authority and the authorities will question you. On Jul 2, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Chris Crawford <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote: > Tina made it because she started out a very long time ago. She has stated > that she invested the money she made in better times in the past and used > that to buy her digital Leicas today. Nothing wrong with that, but that > means her experience is not relevant to young ones just starting out. New > photojournalists today do not make the money to buy that stuff. Sorry to > upset you with facts, but that's reality. What I said was true, and will > never apologize for telling the truth to anyone. > > Not one person who has complained about what I said has taken issue with > the facts of what I said, except you. The others knew I was right, but > didn't like those facts, so they attacked the way I said it. I stand by > every word I have written. > > This reminds me of one time a student showed up for class late for the 5th > day in a row. I told him he needed to learn to tell time, which made him > mad. "You're disrespecting me!" I told him to start coming to class on > time, and I'll respect him, which made the rest of the class break out in > laughter. The student started coming to class on time after that. > > 99% of the problem with today's world is people value feelings over facts > and rationality. > > -- > Chris Crawford > Fine Art Photography > Fort Wayne, Indiana > 260-437-8990 > > http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio > > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 > Become a fan on Facebook > > > > On 7/2/13 3:51 PM, "Barney Quinn" <bjq1 at mac.com> wrote: > >> >> This is in no sense an improvement. You have, in my view, made things >> worse. The face that your have been abused in your life, or the fact that >> people have said hard things to you in no way, under no circumstances >> provides you with any reasonable justification for abusing or being angry >> with any other human being. Two wrongs to not make a right. That is a >> totally bankrupt moral position. Quite the contrary. Having been hurt it >> should motivate you to take care not to injure others. >> >> What you said to Tina was hurtful. Rewording it so that it says parent, >> partner, boy friend, girlfriend, aunt, uncle, or whomever in no way makes >> the remark acceptable because the core thrust of your comment is that >> Tina can't make it on her own. That is simply not true. She did. I have >> enormous respect for her as a person and as a photographer. I do not >> comment on it all that often, but I very much enjoy her pictures. I >> always make it a point to look at them. >> >> The prime tenant of being in a hole, which is where you are, is to stop >> digging. Wouldn't it be better all around if you put down your shovel, >> stopped digging, admitted you crossed a line you would have been better >> advised not to cross, apologize, and then got on with your photography. >> >> Perhaps you might consider taking the advice you gave Tina. What is it >> about this discussion which has such an emotional hold on you?? >> >> Banrey >> >> >> E-Mail: bjq1 at mac.com >> Home: (301) 654-0938 >> Cell: (301) 775-1386 >> >> >> On Jul 02, 2013, at 02:46 PM, Chris Crawford >> <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote: >> >>> Tina, what I said about your husband having to buy you gear wasn't meant >>> to be sexist. If you were not married, I'd have said your parents would >>> have to do it, and if you were a man I'd say wife or parents depending >>> on >>> if you were married. Someone with money would have to buy you the gear >>> you >>> use if you were starting your career now because as a professional >>> photographer, you would absolutely not earn enough yourself to do it. >>> As I >>> said in my original post, that is not a negative comment on the worth of >>> your photographs, it is simply the economic reality in today's world >>> where >>> photojournalists are so poorly paid. As I said in my original post, I >>> make >>> more as a first year high school teacher than fulltime photojournalists >>> I >>> know who have 20-30 yrs experience! >>> >>> The kids at my school caused two of the older teachers to break down >>> crying in their classrooms last year, and both quit teaching afterward. >>> I >>> had students say some shocking and horrible things to me when I first >>> started but I just laughed it off. Once the kids realized that I wasn't >>> going to get all emotional and lose my cool, they started to respect me >>> and by the end of the school year they had come to like me. >>> >>> My point is that you shouldn't let yourself get too emotional about your >>> gear or about what people say on the internet. Leica is not a member of >>> your family, it is not a friend, and it is not God. It is a business, >>> and >>> like all businesses, it exists to make money, not to care about you or >>> your photography. >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Crawford >>> Fine Art Photography >>> Fort Wayne, Indiana >>> 260-437-8990 >>> >>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com My portfolio >>> >>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798 >>> Become a fan on Facebook >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 7/2/13 1:46 PM, "Tina Manley" <images at comporium.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Thank you, Lluis. Your opinion means a lot to me. Being "just" a woman. >>>> when I get emotional or angry, I cry. It's hard to explain to Tom why I >>>> have been sitting at the computer all morning crying. I wrote the >>> history >>>> of my business to justify to myself and to him that I don't need to >>>> excuses >>>> or justifications or explanations ;-) ! I'm going to spend the >>> afternoon >>>> wallpapering and dancing! >>>> >>>> Tina >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2013 at 12:51 PM, Lluis Ripoll >>>> <lluisripollquerol at gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> TINA, >>>>> >>>>> I had no time to follow the discussion, and neither I wan't continue >>> on >>>>> it, I have other things where I want employ my time. Just read few >>> from >>>>> Ted >>>>> and you now and I would like just to add two cents. You Tina, you >>> don't >>>>> need explain neither justify your work, we know it, and I say once >>> more >>>>> congratulations for this. It is not your fault if you have make >>>>> business, >>>>> this is the target many of us wanted, it is not your fault if Leica >>> is >>>>> maybe the best camera system ever made, everyone can do his own >>> choice, >>>>> it >>>>> is not your fault if you have bought or not bought any lens in the >>>>> latest >>>>> years, you don't need justify anything, just continue showing and >>>>> letting >>>>> us continue enjoy your work. >>>>> >>>>> Thank you for all of this, you have been very kind telling us all >>> these >>>>> things >>>>> >>>>> Saludos desde Barcelona! >>>>> Lluis >>>>> >>>>> El 02/07/2013, a las 17:38, Tina Manley escribi?: >>>>> >>>>>> LEICA USERS GROUP - >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been a professional photographer since I incorporated my >>>>> business >>>>> in >>>>>> 1980. I have worked really hard to make my business self-supporting >>>>> and >>>>> it >>>>>> is. I worked for many years as a teacher until my photography >>>>> business >>>>>> began to bring in more money than teaching. I bought my first Leica >>>>> M6 >>>>> in >>>>>> 1989 because my old Minolta SRT101 would not hold up to the extreme >>>>>> conditions of my trips throughout the developing world, where most >>> of >>>>> my >>>>>> assignments were. I have used Leica M6, M4, M3, M2, M7, M8, M9 and >>> MM >>>>>> cameras. I have Leica M lenses from the 21 to the 135. All of my >>>>> Leica >>>>>> lenses are old. I have not bought a Leica M lens in many years. All >>>>> of >>>>> my >>>>>> Leica cameras were bought and paid for with money from my business. >>>>> As >>>>>> digital cameras have improved, I have upgraded my Leica cameras. >>> If I >>>>> had >>>>>> not had to switch to digital for business reasons, I would still be >>>>> using >>>>>> my Leica film cameras. None of my purchases were made for emotional >>>>>> reasons. Leicas perform for me. I would not use them if they did >>>>> not. >>>>> I >>>>>> have never had a Leica camera fail that Leica did not repair >>> quickly, >>>>>> sending me lenders overnight. I am sorry that the cameras are so >>>>> expensive >>>>>> but I do believe you get what you pay for. In my experience, Leicas >>>>> are >>>>>> worth what I pay for them. I have never used a Fuji camera or an >>>>> Olympus. >>>>>> I'm sure they are wonderful. I hated the Canons I used when I first >>>>>> switched to digital. At this stage of my life, I am not interested >>> in >>>>>> switching systems. I am not interested in using medium format >>> cameras >>>>> and >>>>>> cannot imagine carrying one to some of the places I travel. Leicas >>>>> happen >>>>>> to be the perfect cameras for me and my work. That's why I'm on a >>>>> Leica >>>>>> Users Group. If you hate Leicas, perhaps you should be on another >>>>> group! >>>>>> >>>>>> Tina >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Tina Manley >>>>>> http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>> information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Tina Manley >>>> http://tina-manley.artistwebsites.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >