Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/26
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Not correct. The IIIg was released in the late '50s while the M3 dates to '54. The screw bodies a were cheaper and smaller alternative. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+alal=poly.edu at leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+alal=poly.edu at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Mark Rabiner Sent: 26 May 2013 02:06 To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations When the first Leica M came out the IIIG was still in pr0duction for some years. Leica realized that there were people who just weren't going to go for a camera of that larger size form. Many think that when they upped their size form from the LTM to the M they were making a camera which was just too big to be a Leica... A camera which Barnack would not care for. I kind of agree with that. The last several times I did Leica shoots with was with my IIIF. I left my M's at home. I find the size and look of the Leica X2 to be supremely Leicalike. If it has a full sized sensor I'd be saving for it. In effect I think we're looking at just that with the new "mini". On 5/25/13 1:01 PM, "Richard S. Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> wrote: > Well, as others have said, it's hard to imagine Leica competing with > themselves so FF is not a starter, I think. Fuji and others have > shown what can be done with APS-C so if the build and image quality > with M lenses were high, I might go for that price. > > > Dick > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 12:23 PM, grduprey at mchsi.com wrote: > >> $3.5 K would not be acceptable for a APS-C camera, a FF camera would >> be another thing all together. >> >> Gene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Richard Taylor" <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> >> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> >> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 11:00:36 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central >> Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations >> >> I think Steve has it right. Unless the Mini proves to be a useable >> camera at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally >> abandoned those of us looking for a practical tool in favor of the gifters and collectors. >> >> Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C >> sensor, a built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and >> microlenses on the sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image >> quality with or without an adapter. The anticipated price of about >> $3.5K would be in the acceptable range for me if the camera met the other criteria. >> >> Dick >> >> >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote: >> >>> >>> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the >>>> " tall poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone >>>> successful. Good on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well. >>>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs >>>> that we can make with them and for the experience of using those >>>> products to achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to >>>> anyone that may value their products for whatever reason they wish. >>>> Why would you care if you value Leica for the photographs you can make? >>> >>> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who >>> don't make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. >>> Of course it is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But >>> I don't think that you have answered my question. The short run is >>> already surely impacted as I have just noted. I was asking about the >>> longer run. What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>> >>> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm >>> XE-1 body, with a better experience and with better results than >>> with the latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is >>> already compromised, and their plan to sell expensive gear to non >>> users means that they are not currently giving priority to the >>> practical needs of professionals and discriminating users. >>> >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Geoff >>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>>> >>>> >>>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj >>>>> <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Nathan, >>>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I >>>>>> was sure >>>>> of >>>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so >>>>>> obvious - the marketing, the choice of magazines for >>>>>> advertisements, the >>>>> positioning, >>>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >>>>>> obvious, especially when the ostensible reason for the investment >>>>>> was to spread >>>>> the >>>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for >>>>>> them, because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, >>>>>> and as Joseph points out, there are enough people in the emerging >>>>>> world to pay for the bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as well). >>>>> It >>>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in >>>>>> the >>>>> last >>>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - >>>>>> though I believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are >>>>>> fakes, because as >>>>> in >>>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic >>>>>> quality. It will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica >>>>>> as growth in China keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. >>>>>> Remember, this will shaft the Russian market as well, because >>>>>> energy prices would nosedive. As far as >>>>> I >>>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, >>>>>> bar a few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the >>>>>> volumes. They just >>>>> do >>>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big >>>>>> topline >>>>> hit. >>>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would >>>>>> be if >>>>> all >>>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same >>>>>> time, as herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>>>> >>>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash >>>>>> out >>>>> sooner >>>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Jayanand, >>>>> >>>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with >>>>> minimal knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the >>>>> future sound rather ominous. >>>>> >>>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> Jayanand >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman >>>>>> <photo at frozenlight.eu >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >>>>>>> business to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone >>>>>>> people obviously >>>>> know >>>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so >>>>>>> that >>>>> the >>>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that >>>>>>> actually >>>>> are >>>>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Nathan >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> YNWA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. >>>>>>>> They >>>>> may >>>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where >>>>>>>> their >>>>>>> profit >>>>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for >>>>>>>> example, >>>>> Beijing >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made >>>>>>>> for the Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>>>> US$258,280. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>>> information >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>>> information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>>> information >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >>>> information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- Mark William Rabiner Photography http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. 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