Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/09/26
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I agree its a matter of working through it with your camera and software. What I see at the back of my main camera now which is a D700 nikon I get a bit more in the quick jpeg preview and when I shift to the better quality preview in Bridge of course I get a bit more still and that preview reflects what I do later to the image in ADR adobe camera raw. And that can be a slight tweak or get extensive. Mark William Rabiner > From: Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2012 19:33:02 +1000 > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations > > Frank, > The DNG raw format has an embedded preview. That preview is very low > resolution from the M8 and M9 but is understood by Adobe, who of course > invented the format. If you import DNG files (as with other raw files) with > the Adobe raw converter (Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom), it initially uses > that for the preview display and later builds new previews in the > background according to the preferences that you have set. If you go on to > develop the files those changes are also eventually reflected in the > previews you see. > The DNG standard has been updated along the way. Look at your process > versions too. I suggest that you update all files to the latest for best > noise reduction performance especially and the *default* colour rendering > from the profile is also improved. > Certainly LR3 and LR4 and their point variations correctly recognise all > variations of DNG produced by M8, M9 and S2, X1,X2 for that matter. > > The default rendering in the cameras has evolved as well as have the Adobe > Profiles for each M. The sensors are not identical in > sensitiviity/rendering in any case. There are (red) dye differences for > example. > > What the cameras show you on their LCDs is only an approximation of a > default JPG rendering including applied WB as set and not the embedded raw > preview exactly. Again the two LCDs are not identical, despite their common > appearance. > > > Of course there are many possible variables in how you see and perceive > what you are looking at on your screen too. > > I suggest that you work through your LR preference and settings.. > > > Cheers, > Geoff > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > > > >> >> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >> Cc: >> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 22:05:51 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... >> Yes you can adjust the preferences in the adobe camera raw so there is >> less >> color saturation or maybe even just vividness. That does nothing to the >> image itself until you open it. Then you cans save it as a jpeg or >> whatever >> you want. >> Or if you adjust things in your camera, most of them which effect how your >> jpegs are coming out or previews of raw which are the same thing. >> So really there is no such thing as a digital camera which is gives more >> saturated color than another. It all depends on how you have it adjusted. >> Both the camera and the software which stores and opens your pix. >> >> Mark William Rabiner >> Photography >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >> >> >>> From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:49:57 -0700 >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Subject: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations.... >>> >>> Had an M8 for about 3 years, Got a new to me M9 a few months ago. >>> >>> >>> >>> I noted on the M9 that LR found and used an embedded camera specific >> image >>> profile (in the image file itself, I think). The M8 used one that came >> from >>> Adobe, but needed to be turned on inside LR and LR never found an >> embedded >>> profile for the M8. >>> >>> >>> >>> The images on the M9 are significantly more saturated and vivid in their >>> colors than the M8. ( maybe too saturated?) >>> >>> >>> >>> Is this someone else noted and is the way it is or do I have some M9 >>> adjustment set wrong? >>> >>> >>> >>> Frank Filippone >>> >>> Red735i at earthlink.net >>> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: "Frank Filippone" <red735i at earthlink.net> >> To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug at leica-users.org> >> Cc: >> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:22:30 -0700 >> Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... >> I realize all of that..... but I was curious why the M8 and M9 do not put >> out relatively the same, given that Leica set the profiles for both. >> >> Maybe the question is... If you had an M8 and an M9 with the same lens, >> and >> took a picture with the same factory standard (default) camera and LR >> settings, would the images be pretty much identical? Consider saturation >> and "vividness" as criteria..... >> >> Images were captured as dng compressed files. >> >> Frank Filippone >> Red735i at earthlink.net >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org >> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf Of >> Mark >> Rabiner >> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:06 PM >> To: Leica Users Group >> Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... >> >> Yes you can adjust the preferences in the adobe camera raw so there is >> less >> color saturation or maybe even just vividness. That does nothing to the >> image itself until you open it. Then you cans save it as a jpeg or >> whatever >> you want. >> Or if you adjust things in your camera, most of them which effect how your >> jpegs are coming out or previews of raw which are the same thing. >> So really there is no such thing as a digital camera which is gives more >> saturated color than another. It all depends on how you have it adjusted. >> Both the camera and the software which stores and opens your pix. >> >> Mark William Rabiner >> Photography >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >> >> >>> From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:49:57 -0700 >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Subject: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations.... >>> >>> Had an M8 for about 3 years, Got a new to me M9 a few months ago. >>> >>> >>> >>> I noted on the M9 that LR found and used an embedded camera specific >>> image profile (in the image file itself, I think). The M8 used one >>> that came from Adobe, but needed to be turned on inside LR and LR >>> never found an embedded profile for the M8. >>> >>> >>> >>> The images on the M9 are significantly more saturated and vivid in >>> their colors than the M8. ( maybe too saturated?) >>> >>> >>> >>> Is this someone else noted and is the way it is or do I have some M9 >>> adjustment set wrong? >>> >>> >>> >>> Frank Filippone >>> >>> Red735i at earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> >> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >> Cc: >> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 22:55:59 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... >> The reason why its so hard to compare lenses and cameras nowadays is its >> really impossible to start them off at the same place. To take out all the >> defaults or adjust the defaults to a so called neutral. Even if you were >> able to adjust them to match another camera there is firmware inside the >> camera you can't adjust but will change from year to year. Then you have >> in >> effect a new camera. The biggest controversy is over color saturation is >> sharpness. As you cant just not unsharp mask at all it leaves you will >> jelly >> (this is where the M8 people claim they don't need to unsharp because of >> no >> anti alias filter and back and forth) >> >> In a way it doesn't make any difference as not only are you not shooting >> slides you're not shooting negatives either when you shoot digital. When >> you >> click the shutter it is far from the final product though it seems many >> wish >> it was and pretend that it is. People pretend they're shooting slides as >> they can't bare the idea of doing anything. They want the picture to be >> their cameras fault. >> Any digital file even a jpeg you open it up and decide what it needs and >> give it to it its pretty straightforward and does not involve anything >> convoluted. You should in most cases end up with exactly what you want. >> If its a little over saturated there are several ways to desaturate it to >> your liking. In camera or just a bit later. >> >> Mark William Rabiner >> >> >>> From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 19:22:30 -0700 >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... >>> >>> I realize all of that..... but I was curious why the M8 and M9 do not put >>> out relatively the same, given that Leica set the profiles for both. >>> >>> Maybe the question is... If you had an M8 and an M9 with the same lens, >> and >>> took a picture with the same factory standard (default) camera and LR >>> settings, would the images be pretty much identical? Consider saturation >>> and "vividness" as criteria..... >>> >>> Images were captured as dng compressed files. >>> >>> Frank Filippone >>> Red735i at earthlink.net >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org >>> [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=earthlink.net at leica-users.org] On Behalf >>> Of >> Mark >>> Rabiner >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 7:06 PM >>> To: Leica Users Group >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] M8 vs. M9 Observations.... >>> >>> Yes you can adjust the preferences in the adobe camera raw so there is >> less >>> color saturation or maybe even just vividness. That does nothing to the >>> image itself until you open it. Then you cans save it as a jpeg or >> whatever >>> you want. >>> Or if you adjust things in your camera, most of them which effect how >> your >>> jpegs are coming out or previews of raw which are the same thing. >>> So really there is no such thing as a digital camera which is gives more >>> saturated color than another. It all depends on how you have it adjusted. >>> Both the camera and the software which stores and opens your pix. >>> >>> Mark William Rabiner >>> Photography >>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >>> >>> >>>> From: Frank Filippone <red735i at earthlink.net> >>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>> Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2012 18:49:57 -0700 >>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> >>>> Subject: [Leica] M8 vs M9 Observations.... >>>> >>>> Had an M8 for about 3 years, Got a new to me M9 a few months ago. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I noted on the M9 that LR found and used an embedded camera specific >>>> image profile (in the image file itself, I think). The M8 used one >>>> that came from Adobe, but needed to be turned on inside LR and LR >>>> never found an embedded profile for the M8. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The images on the M9 are significantly more saturated and vivid in >>>> their colors than the M8. ( maybe too saturated?) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is this someone else noted and is the way it is or do I have some M9 >>>> adjustment set wrong? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Frank Filippone >>>> >>>> Red735i at earthlink.net >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information