Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/04/09

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Subject: [Leica] Would you trade your M9 to go back to an M8?
From: chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com (Chris Crawford)
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2012 04:27:45 -0400

Jayanand,

I apologize for having to say this, as I like you and admire your
photography, but if you think its ok for Mexicans, Indians, Americans, or
anyone else to work for subliving wages in slave-like conditions, then you
are part of the problem in a world that needs solutions. My own life is
not bad now, I have finally gotten to where I can eat nutritious meals
every day, live in a decent (small but safe and clean) apartment, support
my son, and do my photography without fear of homelessness or
hunger....both of which I have experienced. Having been without a place to
sleep, and without food for days at a time in the past, I would not wish
that upon anyone. This world is wealthy enough to eliminate poverty. Its a
matter of people not wanting to do it.

I don't know much about India's economic situation, but I know that Mexico
is not really a very poor country. Mexican people appear poor because a
few at the very top hoard nearly every Peso worth of wealth in that
country. The president of Mexico lives in Luxury that makes President
Obama's life in the White House look shabby by comparison. The USA is even
richer, so there is zero excuse for poverty here. I suspect that there is
enough food produced in the world to feed everyone on the planet well and
enough wealth to house them in decent housing, but the will to make it
happen, as in Mexico and in the USA is not there.

-- 
Chris Crawford
Fine Art Photography
Fort Wayne, Indiana
260-437-8990

http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio

http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My latest work!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
Become a fan on Facebook





On 4/9/12 4:04 AM, "Jayanand Govindaraj" <jayanand at gmail.com> wrote:

>Chris,
>You are still missing the point - obviously the Mexican fruit pickers
>think
>that picking fruit in the USA gives them a better life than whatever is
>available to them in Mexico, and they are prepared to work extremely hard
>in 'slave like' conditions for precisely that standard of living (Indians
>are no different) - which by your own admission you would not do. If the
>reason is that it is against the law for Americans to do such work and be
>poor, and not against the law for them to be unemployed and be poor, then
>all I can conclude is the law is an ass...
>
>Cheers
>Jayanand
>
>On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 11:44 AM, Chris Crawford <
>chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote:
>
>> Jayanand,
>>
>> You need to go back and reread what I wrote. Honestly, I am not sure
>>what
>> exactly you were responding to. It certainly is not to what I wrote. I
>> certainly didn't 'sneer and jeer' at the world's poor. You have me
>> confused with the woman I responded to.
>>
>> If you think I'm in favor of 'raping and pillaging' the world because I
>> won't work for less than the basic cost of living, then sure, I'm a
>>rapist
>> and pillager. In the USA, it is AGAINST THE LAW to live like people in
>> poor countries do. If I fed my son a third-world diet, the state would
>> take him from me and put me in prison for child abuse. If I lived in the
>> housing one sees in poor countries...same thing, my child would be taken
>> from me by the state, I'd be locked up, and the state would order the
>> demolition of the home for violating housing safety codes. If I lived
>>in a
>> small apartment with lots of other people, we'd all be evicted by the
>> state because there are laws in the state of Indiana regulating how many
>> people can live in a dwelling (based on the number of rooms the home has
>> and the size of the home or apartment).
>>
>> Americans who complain about the low wages here are not being 'entitled
>> whiners', we are coping with a situation where the law basically makes
>>it
>> a crime to be poor, while the state allows employers to pay wages that
>>are
>> anywhere from 1/2 to 1/4 the most minimal cost of living within the
>> strictures of the law (the difference in how far the wages of low-paid
>> people go depends on the cost of living in different parts of the USA).
>> Millions here are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and eventually
>> something is going to have to give. Do you know that in Indiana, you can
>> be arrested and imprisoned if a police officer catches you on the
>>streets
>> with less than $10 in your pocket? The crime is called 'vagrancy' and
>>its
>> used in Fort Wayne to remove the homeless from the streets so the
>> 'respectable' folks don't have to see the 'trash'.
>>
>> --
>> Chris Crawford
>> Fine Art Photography
>> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>> 260-437-8990
>>
>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio
>>
>> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My latest work!
>>
>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>> Become a fan on Facebook
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 4/9/12 1:57 AM, "Jayanand Govindaraj" <jayanand at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Chris,
>> >It is time YOU understood that you cannot rape and pillage the worlds
>> >finite resources to maintain YOUR standard of living at the cost of
>>95% of
>> >the world's population. That era is over, and the sooner you adjust to
>>it,
>> >the easier it will be for you. There are enough people in the world
>>today
>> >who are perfectly satisfied with a lower standard of living than what
>>you
>> >evidently deem to be your right, and who will work very, very hard to
>> >achieve that goal, and sneering and jeering at them will get you
>>nowhere.
>> >
>> >If we are to continue this debate, maybe we should take it to the
>>Forum.
>> >
>> >Cheers
>> >Jayanand
>> >
>> >On Mon, Apr 9, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Chris Crawford <
>> >chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> People won't take the jobs because they pay starvation wages. I don't
>> >> blame them, I won't work for that little either. When people
>>willingly
>> >> accept shit jobs, they cause immense damage to the entire economy of
>>the
>> >> nation by encouraging employers to pay less and less. Its a myth
>>anyway
>> >> that fruit goes unpicked for lack of white workers. They get poor
>> >>Mexicans
>> >> to do it, and as a Hispano-American (part of my family came from
>> >>Spain), I
>> >> find it offensive that my fellow Hispanics are ruthlessly exploited
>>so
>> >> that middle class Americans can pay a few dollars less for fruit.
>> >>
>> >> People with your attitude need to study history. Remember what
>>happened
>> >>in
>> >> Russia in 1917 or in China in 1949, or Cuba in 1959? The poor got
>>tired
>> >>of
>> >> being spit on, and decided to cut some throats. I never thought I'd
>>see
>> >> the United States become the kind of place where that could happen,
>>but
>> >> with our ruling class now determined to reduce the population to
>>third
>> >> world poverty, and plenty of people like you cheering it on, I
>>suspect
>> >> that in my lifetime I'm going to see that kind of violence in my
>> >>country,
>> >> and I'm not happy about it. YOU are the problem, and I agree with
>> >>Richard,
>> >> it sickens me to see this attitude. I fear for the future my son will
>> >> inherit. The present is bad enough for many people.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Chris Crawford (in my last semester as a grad student in History at
>> >> Indiana University)
>> >> Fine Art Photography
>> >> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>> >> 260-437-8990
>> >>
>> >> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio
>> >>
>> >> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My latest work!
>> >>
>> >> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>> >> Become a fan on Facebook
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
>> >Leica Users Group.
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>_______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Would you trade your M9 to go back to an M8?)