[Leica] Luis and Steve

[mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)]

No ones mentioning that Greece was a fascist place for most of the last
modern decades. There is a vacuum because of those guys finally getting out
and now its all of a sudden a relatively free country very late in the game.
One can cast aspersions on the Greek character all we want but such a harsh
social and political transition is tumultuous. It goes without saying that
the Greek people have been around a long time and will survive this like
they've survived everything else for thousands upon thousands of years.

Mark William Rabiner



> From: Robert Clark <rclark01 at comcast.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:16:47 -0400
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Luis and Steve
> 
> I spent about eight days in Greece this summer and was quite interested in
> what I might find. While the historical components are fascinating, there's
> little else there. As Nathan said, they have little to nothing to export to
> the world in terms of Greek expertise. We found the country to be a 
> pleasant
> place but with a ramshackle economy, very very poor infrastructure, and 
> many
> dilapidated buildings/residences. Many structures had been abandoned in
> mid-construction. The place just generally looked unkept with grass and
> weeds everywhere and lots of people sitting around. Athens struck me as an
> organic place...it just grew up without any zoning, purpose of areas, or
> anything of the sort. Even the administration of the ruins was suspect...we
> bought tickets for a certain archeological area and were told by the ticket
> seller it would close in two hours. We get inside and 20 minutes later, 
> they
> were shooing us out.
> 
>> From what I learned given Greece's tumultous recent history, there appears
> to be no loyalty to the government but to small areas and what used to be
> called tribes. People don't feel any obligation to do things that are
> supportive of the country economically. On the other hand, I drove on the
> worst roads I've ever seen and then on the best roads I've ever seen, too.
> The roads leading from the new airport are spectacular as are other
> motorways leading south from Athens. Going east towards Delphi and then to
> Olympia, the roads quickly deteriorate to almost paved goat paths.
> 
> Oh...things were much cheaper in Greece compared to Italy or France, too.
> Too bad they can't export tourism.
> 
> Robert Clark
> Lancaster, PA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frank Dernie" <Frank.Dernie at btinternet.com>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 6:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Luis and Steve
> 
> 
>> Spot on Nathan. Scary to think the only taxpayers are the public employees
>> since that means nobody is topping up the pot at all, since tax paid by
>> public employees goes straight into their next pay packet to be topped up
>> by money paid in by non-paid-out-of-the-same-pot taxpayers.
>> Greece really is a millstone.
>> FD
>> 
>> On 19 Jul, 2011, at 09:18, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
>> 
>>> First of all, Greece has by far the highest debt, 160% of GDP or so,
>>> about twice as much as the US. Secondly, the economy is backwards,
>>> dysfunctional (basically, only public sector employees pay taxes, the
>>> rest cheat and get away with it, at least until now). Spain has some
>>> world-class companies, like Zara, Santander (yes, I know it is a bank,
>>> but banks are still needed), Telefonica, bits of Airbus, high-speed train
>>> expertise, good medical research etc. Greece has none of those things,
>>> just some ruins and ouzo. In the old days it could compete on costs by
>>> devaluing its  currency, the drachma, from time to time, but that option
>>> is not open to it inside the Euro zone.
>>> 
>>> Finally, Greek politicians are simply crooks. They actually falsified
>>> national accounts--think Enron on a country scale.
>>> 
>>> Aside from its geographic location, I have a hard time thinking of Greece
>>> as a proper European country. They had their glory days, but that was
>>> about 2500 years ago.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nathan
>>> 
>>> Nathan Wajsman
>>> Alicante, Spain
>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>> 
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