Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/05/04

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Subject: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original)
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 17:53:00 -0400

The 2-1/4 sq. or 6x6cm format certainly deserves to be thought of much more
as the Rolleiflex format than Hasselblad format,  a relative newcomer to the
Brownie film game.


--------------------
Mark William Rabiner


> From: "Henning J. Wulff" <henningw at archiphoto.com>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 14:13:22 -0700
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of 
> '29
> Original)
> 
> 2-1/4 sq. Same film size as 120 and 620, but
> smaller diameter spool flanges (made possible by
> shorter roll).
> 
> 
>> http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Original_Rolleiflex_6x6
>> Here is says 117 film got 6 frames on a roll but not mention of what the
>> format is.... That I could see.
>> 
>> 
>> --------------------
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photography
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> mark at rabinergroup.com
>> Cars:   http://tinyurl.com/2f7ptxb
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>  From: Richard Man <richard at imagecraft.com>
>>>  Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>  Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 12:40:08 -0700
>>>  To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>  Subject: Re: [Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of
>>> '29
>>>  Original)
>>> 
>>>  I'm in!
>>> 
>>>  On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 6:33 AM, Slobodan Dimitrov
>>>  <s.dimitrov at charter.net>wrote:
>>> 
>>>>  I just found out that next year, 2012, 120 film will be 100 years old.
>>>>  Anyone willing to do a celebratory project to commemorate the 
>>>> milestone?
>>>>  S.d.
>>>> 
>>>>  Begin forwarded message:
>>>> 
>>>>>  From: Carlos Manuel Freaza <cmfreaza at yahoo.com.ar>
>>>>>  Date: May 4, 2011 1:53:25 AM PDT
>>>>>  To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>  Subject: Re: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>>>  Reply-To: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>> 
>>>>>  Kirk:
>>>>>  120 film was available from 1912 and the Rolleiflex was designed in 
>>>>> 1928,
>>>>  it could be made to use 120 film but Heidecke wanted to keep the 
>>>> camera as
>>>>  compact and small as posssible and then he chose the 117 film (B1-6). 
>>>> The
>>>>  Rolleiflex was a market successs and hardly the firsts users got it 
>>>> they
>>>>  asked the factory about to adapt it to use longer film; F&H found a 
>>>> way to
>>>>  retrofit the camera for 620 film spools use with 12 frames.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  According the explanation in Claus Prochnow's Report 1, the 620 spools
>>>>  larger flanges made contact with the upper spool chamber and then it 
>>>> had
>>>> to
>>>>  be enlarged accordingly, the lower spool was housed in a cage and
>>>> projected
>>>>  slightly and then the camera back received two spherical cuts. The 
>>>> camera
>>>>  exterior was kept original without changes.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  The camera could also be adapted for 120 film at factory, but it 
>>>>> required
>>>>  major changes with modifications even for the camera exterior (i.e. a
>>>>  additional spool knob and a new wider transport knob with a groove) and
>>>> the
>>>>  changes for the camera inside were significant too.
>>>>>  While the adaptation for 620 film looks pretty simple for a technician
>>>>  wanting to do the task, the adaptation for 120 film looks more complex
>>>>  requiring special parts, 120 spools had slight variants at the time and
>>>> the
>>>>  adaptation needed to consider these variants.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  It was from January 1932 with the first Rolleiflex Standard model that
>>>>  the Rolleiflex cameras were made to use 120 film from factory. The 117
>>>> film
>>>>  was discontinued in 1949, F&H decision to adopt the 120 film size had
>>>>  nothing to do with the 117 film availability, the Rolleiflex users 
>>>> wanted
>>>> a
>>>>  longer film.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  Carlos
>>>>> 
>>>>>  PS:If you have the 620 spools, it's pretty easy to respool 120 film, 
>>>>> the
>>>>  only difference 120-620 is the spool, film size is the same.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  --- El mi? 4-may-11, Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com> 
>>>>> escribi?:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>  De: Kirk Thompson <thompsonkirk at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>  Asunto: [rolleiusers] Re: Care & feeding of '29 Original
>>>>>>  Para: rolleiusers at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>  Fecha: mi?rcoles, 4 de mayo de 2011, 1:03
>>>>>>  Thanks, Richard, for having a go at
>>>>>>  it, but unfortunately those aren't solutions (if there are
>>>>>>  any).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  1. No way 120, it's too fat. The early Rolleis used 117
>>>>>>  film.  Phillips explains that in 1929 it was the only
>>>>>>  size that had the frame numbers printed in the right place
>>>>>>  on the backing paper. 117 was 6 cm wide but had a thin
>>>>>>  spindle (making a thinner roll), small flanges, and
>>>>>>  different holes in the ends of the spools.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  When 117 was discontinued, many of the original Rolleis
>>>>>>  were converted to 620 film (which is still available from
>>>>>>  B&H). 620 has a skinny spindle and small flanges like
>>>>>>  117, but it required a modification of the cameras: a
>>>>>>  different-sized left bump and right key to engage the
>>>>>>  take-up spool. These are the conversion parts I have some
>>>>>>  small hope of finding, if anyone knows of an old Rollei
>>>>>>  burial site where such things can be found.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  2. Years of experience have proved that klutzes like me do
>>>>>>  not work on their own cameras. So I still want to know if
>>>>>>  there's a classic camera repairman who retains old parts and
>>>>>>  skills. (Fleenor and Krikor don't work on these.)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  Kirk
>>>>> 
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>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Leica Users Group.
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  --
>>>  // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>>>  // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
>>>  // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
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>>> previous
>>>  replies in your msgs. ]
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> 
>        Henning J. Wulff
>   Wulff Photography & Design
> mailto:henningw at archiphoto.com
>    http://www.archiphoto.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




In reply to: Message from henningw at archiphoto.com (Henning Wulff) ([Leica] 100 year anniversary of 120 film (Care & feeding of '29 Original))