Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/01/30

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Subject: [Leica] Eulogy for a Legend
From: benedenia at gmail.com (Marty Deveney)
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:29:23 +1030
References: <AANLkTimRCDFS1weHCNqmraq4fe7ZxMro1uPL1bt0W=KU@mail.gmail.com> <3A9FCEFD-4E7E-4A35-9D9A-E1A8A550FF87@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTi=-nHCiSPMZFOGaGd3vEr3WTeZH7ywKJc+UZu+=@mail.gmail.com>

The big problem is that the 777 formula has always been proprietary
and so you can't be sure what's in it.  You don't need to list
components on an MSDS that comprise less than 2% by mass of a product
if they are deemed not significant to its safety characteristics.

The (one of the?) developing agent in 777 is p-Phenylenediamine
(1,4-diaminobenzene); along with pyro, it is often labelled "highly
toxic" but is not really any more toxic than hydroquinone, which is in
a lot of developers that no-one thinks notably "toxic".
p-Phenylenediamine has the double-whammy that it shares with metol a
propensity to illicit a contact allergy in some people.  Its
reputation as a toxin probably stems from several recent cases of
human fatalities, but these are linked largely to its availability in
household products, e.g. hair dye - so it isn't all that bad (but
having said that I would never dye my hair because of all the organic
peroxides and aniline derivatives in hair dye).  p-Phenylenediamine is
a component of c41 developer.

It also depends on what kind of toxic you mean.  Xtol is more toxic to
plants because of the high borate content.  Toxicity always depends on
the "to what" part of the assessment.

777 is frustrating, and I have no idea if the Formulary version is the
original formula.  I suspect it is not, but that doesn't mean it isn't
worth trying.

A simple way to get around the 'grittiness' of 777 is an extended wash
with several changes of filtered distilled water.  I do this with Xtol
anyway.

I worry less about chemistry being discontinued than film and papers.
I can make chemistry.

Marty




On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:03 PM, Richard Man <richard at imagecraft.com> 
wrote:
> Actually, another reason was that I wasn't shooting as much film in late
> 2009 so I stopped. Since it requires physically calling BPI and sending 
> them
> a check, it was easier just to use Xtol.
>
> But now it's available again, I will pick up a pack and see!!
>
> "relatively high in toxicity" is exactly that. It's probably no worse than
> other ones, just that Xtol is exceptionally less toxic.
>
> I think my workflow has also improved, so this may eliminate those 
> problems.
> We will see.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at 
> frozenlight.eu>wrote:
>
>> "High in toxicity" and "negatives a bit dirtier with it" does not sound
>> like a great developer. You yourself switched to XTOL, a good choice. So I
>> am afraid this news won't even elicit a yawn from me.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nathan
>>
>> Nathan Wajsman
>> Alicante, Spain
>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
>> http://www.greatpix.eu
>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>>
>> YNWA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:51 AM, Richard Man wrote:
>>
>> > Another legendary analogue product bit the dust. Will Luggers stifle a
>> yawn,
>> > or say, "good riddance?" :-)
>> >
>> > http://www.5pmlight.com/?p=1983
>> >
>> > --
>> > // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
>> > // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
>> > // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
>> > [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all
>> previous
>> > replies in your msgs. ]
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
>
>
> --
> // richard <http://www.imagecraft.com/>
> // icc blog: <http://imagecraft.com/blog/>
> // photo blog: <http://www.5pmlight.com>
> [ For technical support on ImageCraft products, please include all previous
> replies in your msgs. ]
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Eulogy for a Legend)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Eulogy for a Legend)
Message from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Eulogy for a Legend)