Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/01/13

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Subject: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer
From: glehrer at san.rr.com (Jerry Lehrer)
Date: Sun Jan 13 16:43:51 2008
References: <0JUL003MB7FI5600@l-daemon> <078b01c855ff$3756b570$0200a8c0@robertbxucevjs>

Robert,

Lots of people have won arguments with me in just that fashion.  They 
tell me to get stuffed or worse.  At that point
I do not reply, and so they believe that they have won.

Jerry


Robert Meier wrote:
> Ted,
>
> You might have said something like, 'after many years of shooting in 
> these situations I am convinved that the people I'm photographing  
> forget I'm there and are not affected by my presence.  But I am a 
> participant in these situations and am not an objective observer.  
> Perhaps, consciously or unconciously, their behavior is affected -- 
> how can I possibly know?  I cannot go into their minds.'
>
> Instead, insisting that your years of experience must dominate and 
> that your adversaries must accept what you say, therefore, as the sole 
> truth, or get stuffed, is not the way to win an argument.
>
> Robert
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Grant" <tedgrant@shaw.ca>
> To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:42 AM
> Subject: RE: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer
>
>
>> Tarek Charara offered quite unmistakenly!
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Ted,I think we are thinking this the other way around: it's not 
>>>> about the
>> photographer, it's about wether the subject is concentrated or not on 
>> what
>> he's doing. Believing the subject could "forget" that the 
>> photographer is in
>> the room or around him taking pictures, is just wrong.<<<
>>
>> Excuse me?
>>
>> I don't know what the hell is wrong with some of you people when you are
>> dealing with a photojournalist with over half century experience of 
>> working
>> in the fashion we're discussing. Then have the audacity to tell me I'm
>> WRONG!! :-( Get stuffed!
>>
>> I have nothing to gain by explaining to you exactly what these 
>> experiences
>> are, but you people are the ones who are wrong! Damn it if I sound 
>> angry I
>> bloody well am!
>>
>> When I explain to you of daily experience with published books to 
>> back it up
>> not to mention the assignments, do not tell me I'm wrong!
>>
>>>>> The photographer can be ignored, but that doesn't mean that the 
>>>>> subject's
>> unconscious mind isn't aware of his presence and/or that the 
>> photographer
>> isn't altering the scene by his presence.<<<
>>
>> Look if you walk into a room and have 2 minutes to get some quick hit 
>> and
>> miss snap you maybe right.
>>
>> But what appears to be happening here is, you are not listening nor 
>> do you
>> understand the difference between a 2 minute hit and run compared to 
>> a 5 day
>> or 5 weeks day after day shooting in the environment of the subject or
>> subjects you're documenting.
>>
>> Your lack of understanding that it's possible to be there and not have
>> absolutely any influence on the subject or subjects is in direct 
>> ratio to
>> your inexperience! Certainly compared to a photojournalist of some 
>> merit in
>> this field regardless of the subject and time.
>>
>> Thank you all for listening, but for crying out loud get with the 
>> program
>> and listen to experience!
>>
>> Have a nice day!
>>
>> ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _


Replies: Reply from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] When in doubt ask photographer)
In reply to: Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] When in doubt ask photographer)
Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] When in doubt ask photographer)