OT: Dealing with LE was: Re: [Leica] Leica Problems

[scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin)]

Hoppy,

I replied to Ted's message on several of these points. But I noted
your phrase, "annoy them."  Not that I have never been annoying
in my younger days, the following might clarify what I do, why
I do it, and how I do it. Annoying LE isn't really the point or the
approach.

Maybe some of the following will be useful for some other photogs
who for whatever reason, are themselves annoyed by unwarranted
(that's key) LE intrusion into their activities.

First,  I don't mind rules. I like rules. I've never had a speeding
ticket :-)  Here's an example of not minding the rules in a photo
context.

In Wash, DC, it's easy to make a photo mistake by including in
a picture little Secret Security "booths" scattered around town. Easy
to miss, but it's a no-no. But Secret Service has been very polite and
professional in handling these mistakes. They've never once asked
for my film. I have NO problems with this.

It might be wise to question and challenge certain rules through the
EFF, ACLU, or similar organizations in our respective countries,  but
that's not an issue with LE itself, I think most of use will agree.

But there ARE other cases - photo or otherwise - where one can
legitimately ask to take up a matter with the police department or one's
political representatives *after* one has complied with the officer's
seeming whimsy. Skipping civil disobediance, we're not trying to
physically confront rough dudes with guns.  But any follow up, or more
importantly THREAT of followup, requires a badge number, and we
have the right to ask for them.

So how to get that far, or more importantly, to get one's way
WITHOUT having to go that far?  The real point is to JUST GET
YOUR WAY as if the LE incident had never happened.

Whatever the nature of the LE "event," I always approach an officer
of official (in DC it's hard to tell who you might be talking to) with a
disarming smile and a hand outstretched as if to shake their hand.
Definitely! Why not?  I'm a gentleman, and politeness counts!

And I spent years of my career glad handing people I might not have
always liked that much - so I'm likely damned good at it :-)

I usually say hi and tell them where I live. In DC, I say "I live up in
Woodley Park (a rich neighborhood)," *especially* if I'm not wearing
nice clothes - which is increasingly rare these days because I have a
bizarre sweating disorder. Out of town, I tell them I'm a "tourist" from
Washington, DC., or that I'm visiting "family" in the area. I'm pretty
good at using keywords and phrases to make the situation as non-
confrontational as soon as possible. This is ACTING.

In either case, I act like my grandpa would and offer to show them my
drivers license. I say, "Officer, here, let me show you my ID. I imagine
you'd like to know I'm a U.S. citizen." Blah blah. I might even grossly use
"war on terror" hyperbolic language, if I think it'll score me some points.

Again, this is AN ACT, and the sole purpose is to GET YOUR WAY.

I then ask a question or two or more about the rules or situation. I appeal
to them as "the expert" on the scene. That gets them talking, and I listen
attentively, ask little clarifying points, maybe agree with some little 
thing
they say, look for *any* opportunity for a little disarming laughter,
which is a strong human bonding experience.

By now, we're sorta buddies. Could be just 30-60 seconds later, but the
dynamic has changed.

This doesn't just apply only to photo situations, but let's just pick a 
photo
example to make this easier. Say a cop erroneously asserts that I need
a permit to take pictures for Lord knows what reason on a downtown
street. 

In my experience, these photo issues are usually a little ignorance mixed
with a little machisimo with a dash of class consciousness ;-)

The talking process is designed to gently expose their ignorance, spare
their ego, and thus between the greeting and the questions, disarm the
situation IN YOUR FAVOR.

I ask, "Really, OK, where do I go to get a permit?" He says, "Um, I
don't really know about permits." I say, "Yeah, you know, I do know
you need one for commercial shoots, like models or movies and stuff,
but in this one part of town I don't think I need one."  He says, "Yeah,
hmm, well, some man approached me a block back and said he didn't want
you to take his picture."  Now the truth is out. I say, "Oh, well if he 
didn't, he
could have asked, and I certainly wouldn't have (a lie). I like using 
old cameras
and taking pictures of the beautiful buildings here in town." He says, 
"Ok, well,
just try to be careful." I say, "Sure, thanks officer" and go about my 
shooting
as if nothing had happened.

If find that as soon as you ask a legitimate question to which they don't
know the answer, everything can change. Another quick example. I was
shooting on the street. LE (or some armed official - so many kinds here
in DC) comes up to me and says, "You can't shoot in the subway."  I say,
"Oh, yeah I know, I never do that. I'm on the street." LE, "But your'e
near a subway entrance." I say, "No problem, how many feet away should
I be so I can take pictures. I'm just taking pics of my own neighborhood."
LE, "Huh, I have no idea."  Situation *OVER*.  LE just walks away and
leaves me to my photo pleasure.

Bu tlet's say instead he claims I have to go to the police department, 
or visit
my city council person or some other nonsense to get a picture. This is 
where
the badge number now comes into play.

So, we're still buddies, but the situation isn't completely defused. He
claims I have to follow up with XXX. I say, "Great, thanks, I'll definitely
follow up with XXX (different in every circumstance). I need to get your
name and badge number, so that if XXX inquires, I can inform them who I
spoke with." Or better, if applicable, I say, "Getting through to XXX
might be pretty hard. I'm sure you know about beurocracy better than I do.
(flattering language) Let me get your name and badge number so I can tell
them you said I needed to speak with them. Also, I might have to reach you
for any clarifying information on the kind of permit I need." All depends.
But this is all very reasonable.

My head races through scenarios like this sometimes when I'm out and
about about. Once I was prepared to tell any interferring LE that I'd
been out of work for a while (true), and I was trying to get some pics of
an event I could sell (total lie). Then I'd ask for their name and badge
number so I could explain to one local publication in particular why I 
couldn't
deliver the photo goods.

THIS NEVER HAPPENED. But I had schemed up yet another ACTING
scenario to utilize if need be.  IT'S AN ACT - WHITE LIES ARE JUST
FINE. JUST GET YOUR WAY.

Now with a polite and *legitimate* request for a badge number, there is is
another opportunity for the cop to get *antsy* and insecure about their
expertise and want out of the situation. LE, "Well, you know, maybe I'm
mistaken in who you should contact. There *are* alot of tourists taking
pictures here. Just be careful."

Yeah, the little fascists always need to have the last word. Who gives a 
crap.
Now I can go about my business. I GOT MY WAY.

Otherwise, if the officer gives you their name and badge number, they
might very well know something I don't - like a big, high security motorcade
is coming in 5 minutes or something.  I have NO problem with that, and I
don't think most folks would either. They might not offer me their badge
number but explain to me a real, *legitimate* reason why I need to move
along. No problem.

But while this latter case has happened (for example, snapping a cool statue
in from of a Federal Court building in Syracuse, NY, IIRC), it's the 
minority
of cases. I find most LE doesn't know what they're talking about, or
responding to some a**hole's compaints or whatever.

YOU'RE TRYING TO GET YOUR WAY, NOT "OFF THE MAN."

The point is to be belligerently attacking their expertise and authority in
the situation IN FACT - BUT NOT IN APPROACH. No, to the
officer one is sincerely asking for information and their help.

Hope some of these tactics might help others.


Ideologically, what I refuse to do is to admit that I live in some kind 
of police
state where I have absolutely no recourse against unjust LE behavior. I 
refuse
to unquestioningly submit to all and any random armed authority unless 
there's
clear crisis going on. No chance - ideologically, I'm too much of "a 
citizen." But
that's a pretty personal thing.

I've done things in the early '90s FSU, that many or perhaps most people
would consider extremely stupid, even life threatening. Like refusing to pay
bribes to *any* officials, including plenty with machine guns - Hungarian
border guards; Kiev "airport authorities" alone in the middle of the night
during a 12 hour staring contest ordeal to get my cargo out of the airport.

If folks don't know, there weren't any banks back then, so these machine
gun toting authorities we were not bribing and were pissing off all knew
that  we Westerners all had tons and tons of cash with us. They could
have killed us in an instant and just raided our apartment. Several
folks were killed back then for their giant cash hoards in just this 
manner.

Still, I didn't care. I don't believe in bribes, and I refused. Never 
even seemed
to me like a mistaken or foolish thing to do.  I did always get my way 
in the
end, and I'll gladly admit that I'm a strange bird :-)

Scott

p.s. BTW, I just realized that this behavioral strategy comes right out of
the famous "How to Win Friends and Influence People." IIRC, he
has an example of LE asking about his walking his dog in a public
park or something. He describes the "right way" to get your way
and the "wrong way" to get punished.  Man, it's really weird how
ideas picked up long, long ago actually can take root in one's psyche,
habits or behavior.

p.p.s. I was just reading a controversial (to me) article on guidelines
published by various Muslim organizations, advising muslims how
to effectively deal with LE, including the FBI and even the INS. Very
similar "scenario" oriented guidelines, what to say, how to say it,
and so on. 



G Hopkinson wrote:

>Scott, I'm not security folks, although I have been armed military folks.
>We all feel annoyed as photographers should we be unjustly regarded with 
>suspicion and we are all affected or inconvenienced by
>tighter security. I don't think that will improve any time soon. Sometimes 
>those guys in uniform mightn't be as polite or reasonable
>as we may like.
>However keep in mind why they are there.
>I'm sure not going to do anything that may annoy them, whatever moral high 
>ground I may think I have as an innocent photographer.
>Who needs the hassle or unpleasantness?
>I'm with Don when he tells us to be polite and engage the officer. If he's 
>still rude or unhappy, I'd be quietly leaving rather than
>increase my chances of a long interview someplace.
>
>Your tolerance for adventure may be higher than mine!
>
>Cheers
>Hoppy  
>
>  
>

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