[Leica] Basic question about digital noise in the shadows

[s.jessurun95 at chello.nl (animal)]

What I do know is that the latest LF digital backs outclass film in dynamic 
range.
A Sinar brochure mentiones 14 stops with the cooled back.
best
simon jessurun



> Ok, I got lucky. Googled and got this on the 1st or 2nd hit. (Apologies if
> the formattng gets screwy below.)
>
> Here's a longish quote I want to examine:  "The best way to remove noise 
> is
> not to create them in the first place. To me, it means ISO100 as much as 
> possible
> and don't underexpose by too much (I do want to remind everybody about 
> erring
> on the underexposure side still holds, just don't overdo it). When 
> contrast is high,
> use fill flash or reflector if possible....  I group noise into 2 
> catagories, shadow noise
> and long exposure noise. Shadow noise is a general low level noise that 
> spreads out
> in dark areas. [snip] Note that shadow noise could happen in brightly lit 
> photos, it
> could lurk in dark shadows, or one of the other color channels (for 
> example, blue
> channel on a red subject)."
>
> Ok, this does correspond to my own digi experiences over the past two 
> years
> (including the blue channel noise thing, interesting).
>
> Does anyone else think that this is *completely* retarded?
>
> He says clearly that very well exposed pictures can have oodles of noise 
> "in the
> shadows."  So if there are shadows, use fill flash if possible.
>
> Huh!?!?!?
>
> So, think of Wynn Bullock's photographs with those beautiful and seemingly
> infinite shades of black and gray, and then something in the composition 
> that
> soars from the shadows toward paper white (not necessarily getting there).
>
> http://www.laurencemillergallery.com/images/bullock_real38.jpg
>
> This looks crappy compared to the LensWork reproduction. But it's just an
> example, and I hope it will sufficiently illustrate the point. I'm sure 
> most
> of us can think of other beautifully toned, "nearly all shadows" kinds of 
> fine
> art photographs.
>
> One more very important detail. I've done noise reduction for shadow 
> noise.
> It *softens* things up quite a bit.  Often doesn't matter.  But I'm 
> talking now
> about photos where there is lots of *very sharp*, important detail on the
> "shadow side" of the histogram.
>
> In fact, sometimes nearly all the important detail can be in the shadows.
>
> http://www.laurencemillergallery.com/images/bullock_real15.jpg
>
> This doesn't *quite* illustrate this point, but it's pretty close, and we 
> can
> all recall the myriad fine art pictures of black-to-dark rocks.
> Sharp, sharp, sharp. We're talking LF 4x5 or 8x10 sharp.  So throwing
> alot of blur or any other technique that will compromise the sharpness
> and detail of the shadowy objects would most often be completely
> unacceptable.
>
>
> So gosh, were he a digi shooter, I guess we'd have to advise Mr. Bullock
> to use fill flash.
>
> This is a joke, right?  Come on, I'm LMAO, have a chuckle along me.
>
> If the quote above is true, a digital camera would be nearly unsuitable 
> for any
> serious art photography where the shadow side of the histogram is where 
> all
> the action is. It would only be good for vaction pics of the Taj Mahal, 
> some
> happy snaps using fill flash and other brightly lit scenes - or PJ work 
> where
> no one cares.
>
> Yeah, I'm exagerating again :-)
>
> So this is my question.
>
> With a DSLR, can one take "oodles of shades of gray" style pictures, or 
> even
> pictures where sharp objects in shadows dominate or significantly 
> complement
> a well lit subject???? Like a nude on lovely black wet rocks, just for 
> example.
>
> If you made it this far, many thanks.
>
> I'd love to be told that I've got some blind spot, that I'm missing 
> something
> very basic and fundamental.
>
> Or, I'd love to be told that the above quote is hogwash. (Not likely)
>
> Better yet, I'd love to be clued into some by now well known and well worn
> technique for making beautiful, sharp "shadowy" pictures with a DSLR.
>
> I appreciate any insight or advice anyone has to offer.
>
> Scott
>
> -- 
> Pics @ http://www.adrenaline.com/snaps
> Leica M6TTL, Bessa R, Nikon FM3a, Nikon D70, Rollei AFM35
> (Jihad Sigint NSA FBI Patriot Act)
>
>
>
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