[Leica] IIIc or IIIf?

[don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory)]

Hoppy,
I would make my decision on IIIc or IIIf based on availability and how it
sounds.  Availability as you are not in a location that has tons of LTM's
laying around in cases.  Sound as the sound of the shutter at low speeds
will tell you a whole lot about the camera.  If it runs through the speeds
smoothly and with a certain snap at the open and close then you should be
fine.  Look through the lens opening at the higher speeds and make sure the
second curtaion closes all the way to the far side of the frame without
slowing while also checking the condition of the shutter curtain, it should
look a lot like the one in your M's.

Technically, the IIIf's have more ball bearings in all the shutter races so
should be better and worth more as they are also newer.  But... smell the
camera and if it smells like clean lubricant, the shutter sounds good, and
the rangefinder is bright then choose the camera that is the best in these
conditions.

As to lenses, boy there are a bunch of really good ones out there.
Summitar's are almost as good as Summicrons and if you come across a LTM
Nikkor F1.4 or a Canon F1.4 at what for you is a good price either will
outperform the early S's.  Likewise, Canon 50mm F1.8 Serenars are very good
lenses and are dirt cheap at least in N. America.  I have also had good luck
with Jupitor 50mm F1.5's.  For a wide angle the Canon 35mm in either F2 or
2.8 are very good and also pretty cheap.  If you can see feel and touch the
Soviet 35 F2.8 then they can also be quite good but as Marc said quality
control is pretty spotty.  If you want to go down to a 28 then the Canon
28mm F3.5 is a very good lens and often very cheap.  Up as far as a 85 or 90
the Nikon or Canon 85 F2 are very good and again if you can see feel and
touch the Soviet 85's can be very good but are especially prone to focusing
issues as they need to be shimmed correctly.

Last, check out the Cosina lenses in LTM.  Good build quality at good prices
and most folks like the images they cut.

If you go beyond 50's then you will be looking for aux. viewfinders.  If you
can find a Tewe(large view and run typically from 35 to 180 or 200, the
famous image of the Leica photographer on the cover of Life is a Tewe) they
are very good and the Japanese made some very good knockoffs that are also
very good.  Lately, I have found a fair number of viewfinders pretty cheap
as a whole lot of folks are bailing out of LTM so the accessories are coming
down in price.  The Zeiss finders are wonderful but sometimes you can find
the Canon ones pretty cheap or thrown in with a lens.

Don
don.dory@gmail.com


On 8/5/06, G Hopkinson <hoppyman@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the detail Marc. No question too that the gear will always
> exceed my ability to tax it. Still, it would be fun to experiment with the
> classical designs.
> I do appreciate the Contax badged gear as well. All of mine came from
> Kyocera though. The difficulty with the IIs and IIIs is finding any sort
> of
> stock or service or spares support locally. For Leica and Rollei at least
> there are some service avenues here. I have to fly 2000km just to visit a
> dealer with a good range of RF equipment as it is.
>
> I do correspond sometimes with Jeffery, 50 Supremo and all around nice
> guy.
> Still I think that many of his lenses are of newer generations. We shall
> have to ask his opinion as well.
>
> Are you suggesting that the IIIc is a better choice because of
> useability/availability/cost/value for money? I was actually just
> considering a single body and lens, just for the pleasure of learning and
> using the LTM model, as well as my M. Still shopping just for another lens
> or so for that one. I know there's a 28 out there somewhere just itching
> to
> be adopted.
> I need to sell some stuff, the photo cupboard is bulging with neglected
> cameras as it is.
>
> Aren't/weren't the Jupiter lenses Russian manufactured on post WW2
> acquired
> Zeiss equipment?
> Do you suggest them because of their Zeiss designs but lower prices? My
> initial reaction would be to be wary of quality control issues. However, I
> have to say I have never even seen one.
>
> Cheers
> Hoppy
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org
> [mailto:lug-bounces+hoppyman=bigpond.net.au@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
> Marc James Small
> Sent: Saturday, 5 August 2006 13:33
> To: Leica Users Group
> Subject: RE: [Leica] IIIc or IIIf?
>
> At 11:15 AM 8/5/06 +1000, you wrote:
> >Hi Marc.
> >I heard a rumour you know something about these cameras!
> >
> >I would like a user camera.
> >No flash or timer aspirations. I have read the information that
> Cameraquest
> >have posted and had one or two helpful suggestions from Luis and Arche.
> >
> >By all means educate me with some specifics regarding build quality, ease
> of
> >operation and what sort of glass would be appropriate. Need to be the
> proper
> >period thing. This is entirely a camera indulgence not requirement
> >situation.
>
> Hoppy
>
> I had to do a professional wedding shoot on one occasion with a IIIc when
> my early M3 went south on me, and all worked well.
>
> The only problem with the basic IIIc is the outside.  The chrome on some
> is
> not properly fixed, and the rubber covering on others is flakey, both due
> to the limits on what was available to the factory after the War ended.
> So, the later the beter, as they say.  MIne suffers from neither problem
> and is s/n 499508, if that gives you a hint.
>
> Jeffery Smith could probably give you more guidance on the normal lenses
> than can I, as he seems to have cornreed the world market on odd 50mm
> lenses.  I happen to like the basic Summitar a lot, though the later
> Summicorn is hard to beat.  The Soviet Jupter-3 1.5/50 will work rings
> around the Leitz Summarit, thouigh a former List member took some grand
> pictures with his Summarit back in the 1950's.  (I own a Smmitar,
> Summarit,
> Summicron, all in thread-mount, and two Carl Zeiss Jena 2/5cm and a single
> CZJ 1.5/5cm  Sonnar, along with a 2/2" Cooke Amotal and a Jupiter-3 and a
> Jupiter-8.)
>
> My advice would be:  a basic IIIc with Summitar.  Add a Soviet Jupter-12
> 2.8/35 and Jupiter-11 2/85 and a Soviet multiframe auxiliary viewfinder
> and
> all will be made well.  With that set, you can learn how Eisie made his
> greatest pictures.  And pick up a copy of the 1949 or 1950 edition of the
> LEICA MANUAL
>
> The NEXT lesson will be to wean you away from this weenie Wetzlar stuff
> and
> to get you to use the real RF system, the Contax.  A Contax II is the most
> magnificent RF ever made.  They are plentiful, they are cheap, they are
> reliable, and they are so very, very cool.
>
> I own a bunch of Leicas -- a IIIc, a IIIf RD/ST, a IIIg, an M3 SS, and a
> Wetzlar M6.  I also own a bunch of Contaces -- a I, verion 7, two II's, a
> III, a IIa, and a IIIa, and a slew of lenses for those as well as for the
> Leicas.  Hell, I even have the Novoflex reflex housings for the Leicas and
> for the Contax cameras.  And Visoflex and PLOOT gear.  And bellows.
> Shucks, I also own a bunch of macro lenses -- I love to do MF slides iwth
> my Hassleblad 200FCM and a bellows rig and a Photar macro lens.  It blows
> the folks away when you show them the difference in engraving styles on
> Leitz lenses from 1933 to 1978.
>
> These really are wonderful cameras, both Leica and Contax, as both are
> system cameras.  I have hooked up my M6 to my Questar and taken
> photographs
> of a lunar eclipse, while I had the IIIc hooked up to a 4/30cm CZJ Sonnar.
> But, tommorrow, I might pick up my IIIc and load a roll of film, and go
> shoot the local peach festival.  These are remarkably flexible cameras.
>
> I am in the process of moving from Roanoke, Virginia, to Richmond,
> Virginia, and am dragging my heels as much as I can, as I never lost a
> thing in Richmond.  The BIG discussion my wife and I are having is where
> the dark room will be in the new house.  She immediately ruled out my
> suggestion that we convert the kitchen ...
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
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