Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/06/24

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Armed America on the Road
From: richard-lists at imagecraft.com (Richard)
Date: Sat Jun 24 20:11:38 2006
References: <3.0.2.32.20060624195634.02b707d0@pop.infionline.net> <C0C36032.124C1%bd@bdcolenphoto.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20060624184306.06288e38@192.168.100.42> <449DF553.6070903@hemenway.com>

No, I only read B.D.'s reaction :-) I tend to skip non-photo related posts 
longer than one paragraph.

At 07:30 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote:


>You two READ that screed?
>
>Jim
>
>
>Richard wrote:
>
>>B.D. I'd be upset too except I know where the "delete" key is. :-)
>>At 06:33 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>>So once again, we read a thousand words of MJS's opinions on a subject, 
>>>only
>>>to be told the rest of us should confine our opinions on the same subject 
>>>to
>>>the Forum?
>>>It would be funny, were it not so sad....
>>>
>>>
>>>On 6/24/06 7:56 PM, "Marc James Small" <msmall@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> > At 04:39 PM 6/24/06 -0400, Jim Shulman wrote:
>>> >> I understand that's the whole point of this project--that gun 
>>> ownership is a
>>> >> lot more "normal" than most of us non-owners would imagine.  While 
>>> the usual
>>> >> media image of a gun owner is some wild-eyed fanatic living in a 
>>> >> garret,
>>> >> Kyle is showing otherwise--that it's as ubiquitous as owning a Toro 
>>> riding
>>> >> mower or Veg-o-matic.
>>> >>
>>> >> That's not to say more desirable than owning the mower or Popeil 
>>> items--he's
>>> >> not making judgments about that--but it is rather remarkable in that 
>>> he's
>>> >> putting faces on what had been anonymity.
>>> >
>>> > A number of us on the LUG are gun owners.  I don't hunt but I do target
>>> > shoot on occasion.  (My rifle is a 1909 Argentine Mauser rechambered 
>>> to .30
>>> > - '06 I picked up years back from my Secretary's father as part of a 
>>> > fee.
>>> > I had a 3X-9X by 30mm scope mounted on it -- the scope was made by the
>>> > Arsenal folks in the Ukraine, the guys who gave us those Contax RF 
>>> clones,
>>> > the Kiev cameras, for so many years -- it even has the oblate triune 
>>> sphere
>>> > logo on it.)  I don't own it for intimdiation, I don't own it for 
>>> machismo,
>>> > I don't own it for self-defense (though my wife came equipped with a.22
>>> > Ruger target pistol along with a whole aresenal, so our differences 
>>> tend to
>>> > be VERY peacefully resolved <he grins> -- but, then, she is a Michigan
>>> > farmer by origin and grew up around guns much more so than I did.)
>>>I do
>>> > take my rifle out every couple of years with a couple of boxes of 
>>> 280-grain
>>> > ammunition (have to use the high-power rounds as there is the barrel 
>>> > is a
>>> > tad larger than the regulation .30 - '06 one, tehcnically it's a 7.62mm
>>> > round in an 8mm barrel, though the actual measurements are a bit 
>>> different..
>>> >
>>> > There were no firearms in my house when I was growing up but my 
>>> father was
>>> > retired from the Army and had commanded an anti-aircraft battery in 
>>> Alaska
>>> > in combat during the Second World War.  I learned to shoot when I was 
>>> > 12
>>> > and taught marksmanship when I was a Boy Scout camp staff member and 
>>> later
>>> > as a Scoutmaster (along with teaching campcraft, pioneering, map work 
>>> > and
>>> > orienteering, first aid, lifesaving and so forth).  I consistently shot
>>> > Marksman in the Army, generally on the M1 or M14 or M16 but on 
>>> occasion on
>>> > the M1911A1 .45 automatic or on a substitute such as a .22 target 
>>> > pistol.
>>> > The Army allowed me to fire a LOT of weapons from small-bore rifles and
>>> > pistols up through 81mm and 4.2" mortars to 90mm and 105mm tank guns 
>>> > and
>>> > even 105mm and 155mm and, on a few occasions, 8" howitzers.  I never 
>>> had a
>>> > desire to own a gun despite an intense interest in military history:
>>> > during most of my time, I was much more concerned with the maintenance
>>> > cycles and MTBF for, say, the M1 tank or the CUCV than I was on 
>>> popping off
>>> > rounds downrange.
>>> >
>>> > I own a gun just because I own a gun.  Very few of my friends know 
>>> > that I
>>> > own a gun and that my wife has an arsenal that would choke the 
>>> average pawn
>>> > shop.  We do not belong to the NRA or the like, we do not have
>>> > bumper-stickers on our cars (well, at election time, I generally sport
>>> > something along the lines of OCTAVIA JOHNSON FOR SHERIFF or the like), 
>>> > we
>>> > do not go to demonstrations.  I know a bunch of other gun owners who 
>>> > are
>>> > much of a sort with my pattern, and I suspect that most US gun owners 
>>> just
>>> > own guns and so be it.  It is not the central part of our lives, it 
>>> is just
>>> > something we do and, yes, my wife came equipped with a riding mower 
>>> > which
>>> > seems a bit of an overkill on my small yard and I tend to do my 
>>> cooking on
>>> > cast iron.  The only Cuisinart I use is our coffee maker, though I 
>>> > prefer
>>> > to grind the beans in a Krups grinder proving that even a mild 
>>> techno-geek
>>> > can go low-tech on occasion.  (I do have my late mother's Cuisinart
>>> > processer but my wife simply refuses to use it, preferring the old 
>>> ways of
>>> > doing it by hand.  We are having strip steaks and blanched asparagus 
>>> and a
>>> > bottle of Chilean red wine in a few minutes:  we do eat simply but 
>>> > well!)
>>> >
>>> > USian citizens have rights derived from the common sovereignity and
>>> > expressed in our Constitution.  The Bible does not provide any 
>>> "rights" to
>>> > Chirstians as Paul makes clear that anyone saved -- and he does not
>>> > restrict this to "Christians", interestingly -- is saved but through 
>>> > the
>>> > infinite Grace of God.  We Christians do have a lot of obligations, 
>>> most of
>>> > which we miss -- how many of us have ever gone down to Skid Row on
>>> > Thanksgiving Morning and brought it a couple of hungover street folks 
>>> for a
>>> > meal in the haven of our home? -- but at the same time we have no
>>> > guarantees with Christ other than that if we throw ourselves 
>>> wholeheartedly
>>> > into his service, we shall earn His happiness.  But, again, there are 
>>> only
>>> > the haziest of guarantees in the Bible and I get fidgety when folks 
>>> > start
>>> > talking about a "God-given right" to bear firearms.  The right came 
>>> > from
>>> > the forefathers when they developed our common polity by drafting the
>>> > Constitution, and is only as strong as we make it.  (I can discuss 
>>> > Second
>>> > Amendment rights all day long but, as I note below, that is not a 
>>> > proper
>>> > topic for discussion on the LUG., so contact me off-List, as I am not a
>>> > member of the Forum.)
>>> >
>>> > We can argue the radical fringes all we want but that probably belongs 
>>> > on
>>> > the Forum and not on the LUG itself as we would soon be discussing ALL 
>>> > of
>>> > the radical fringe elements and then we'd be into the sort of general
>>> > donnybrook which makes my Riley blood elated but which causes my 
>>> > Hielan'
>>> > ancestors to roll over in their graves at the wasting of a good fight 
>>> > on
>>> > something which cannot be resolved.  So, the Forum is probably the 
>>> > place
>>> > for the discussion of the social aspects of firearm ownership, while a
>>> > discussion of these fine pictures is, of course, at the heart of the 
>>> > LUG.
>>> >
>>> > Sorry to have rattled on so long, but I am responding in fine to a 
>>> bunch of
>>> > comments from other members and just wanted you guys to realize that 
>>> there
>>> > are gun owners on the LUG -- for that matter, our Senior Member, was 
>>> taught
>>> > BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) by William Tell shortly before he did 
>>> > that
>>> > magnificent book of combat photographs taken during the Wars of the 
>>> Roses,
>>> > though I don't know that Ted has ever owned a firearm.
>>> >
>>> > Marc
>>> >
>>> > msmall@aya.yale.edu
>>> > Cha robh b?s fir gun ghr?s fir!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Leica Users Group.
>>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please 
>>use richard at imagecraft.com)
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Leica Users Group.
>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please 
use richard at imagecraft.com) 



In reply to: Message from msmall at aya.yale.edu (Marc James Small) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
Message from bd at bdcolenphoto.com (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
Message from richard-lists at imagecraft.com (Richard) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
Message from Jim at hemenway.com (Jim Hemenway) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)