Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/06/24

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Subject: [Leica] Armed America on the Road
From: bd at bdcolenphoto.com (B. D. Colen)
Date: Sat Jun 24 18:54:23 2006

Good Lord, Richard, I'm not upset - the day is long past when that
particular southern breeze could upset me. I was simply making an
observation. :-)


On 6/24/06 9:44 PM, "Richard" <richard-lists@imagecraft.com> wrote:

> B.D. I'd be upset too except I know where the "delete" key is. :-)
> 
> At 06:33 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote:
> 
>> So once again, we read a thousand words of MJS's opinions on a subject, 
>> only
>> to be told the rest of us should confine our opinions on the same subject 
>> to
>> the Forum?
>> It would be funny, were it not so sad....
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/24/06 7:56 PM, "Marc James Small" <msmall@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> At 04:39 PM 6/24/06 -0400, Jim Shulman wrote:
>>>> I understand that's the whole point of this project--that gun
>> ownership is a
>>>> lot more "normal" than most of us non-owners would imagine.  While the
>> usual
>>>> media image of a gun owner is some wild-eyed fanatic living in a garret,
>>>> Kyle is showing otherwise--that it's as ubiquitous as owning a Toro 
>>>> riding
>>>> mower or Veg-o-matic.
>>>> 
>>>> That's not to say more desirable than owning the mower or Popeil
>> items--he's
>>>> not making judgments about that--but it is rather remarkable in that 
>>>> he's
>>>> putting faces on what had been anonymity.
>>> 
>>> A number of us on the LUG are gun owners.  I don't hunt but I do target
>>> shoot on occasion.  (My rifle is a 1909 Argentine Mauser rechambered to 
>>> .30
>>> - '06 I picked up years back from my Secretary's father as part of a fee.
>>> I had a 3X-9X by 30mm scope mounted on it -- the scope was made by the
>>> Arsenal folks in the Ukraine, the guys who gave us those Contax RF 
>>> clones,
>>> the Kiev cameras, for so many years -- it even has the oblate triune 
>>> sphere
>>> logo on it.)  I don't own it for intimdiation, I don't own it for 
>>> machismo,
>>> I don't own it for self-defense (though my wife came equipped with a.22
>>> Ruger target pistol along with a whole aresenal, so our differences tend 
>>> to
>>> be VERY peacefully resolved <he grins> -- but, then, she is a Michigan
>>> farmer by origin and grew up around guns much more so than I did.)  I do
>>> take my rifle out every couple of years with a couple of boxes of 
>>> 280-grain
>>> ammunition (have to use the high-power rounds as there is the barrel is a
>>> tad larger than the regulation .30 - '06 one, tehcnically it's a 7.62mm
>>> round in an 8mm barrel, though the actual measurements are a bit
>> different..
>>> 
>>> There were no firearms in my house when I was growing up but my father 
>>> was
>>> retired from the Army and had commanded an anti-aircraft battery in 
>>> Alaska
>>> in combat during the Second World War.  I learned to shoot when I was 12
>>> and taught marksmanship when I was a Boy Scout camp staff member and 
>>> later
>>> as a Scoutmaster (along with teaching campcraft, pioneering, map work and
>>> orienteering, first aid, lifesaving and so forth).  I consistently shot
>>> Marksman in the Army, generally on the M1 or M14 or M16 but on occasion 
>>> on
>>> the M1911A1 .45 automatic or on a substitute such as a .22 target pistol.
>>> The Army allowed me to fire a LOT of weapons from small-bore rifles and
>>> pistols up through 81mm and 4.2" mortars to 90mm and 105mm tank guns and
>>> even 105mm and 155mm and, on a few occasions, 8" howitzers.  I never had 
>>> a
>>> desire to own a gun despite an intense interest in military history:
>>> during most of my time, I was much more concerned with the maintenance
>>> cycles and MTBF for, say, the M1 tank or the CUCV than I was on popping 
>>> off
>>> rounds downrange.
>>> 
>>> I own a gun just because I own a gun.  Very few of my friends know that I
>>> own a gun and that my wife has an arsenal that would choke the average 
>>> pawn
>>> shop.  We do not belong to the NRA or the like, we do not have
>>> bumper-stickers on our cars (well, at election time, I generally sport
>>> something along the lines of OCTAVIA JOHNSON FOR SHERIFF or the like), we
>>> do not go to demonstrations.  I know a bunch of other gun owners who are
>>> much of a sort with my pattern, and I suspect that most US gun owners 
>>> just
>>> own guns and so be it.  It is not the central part of our lives, it is 
>>> just
>>> something we do and, yes, my wife came equipped with a riding mower which
>>> seems a bit of an overkill on my small yard and I tend to do my cooking 
>>> on
>>> cast iron.  The only Cuisinart I use is our coffee maker, though I prefer
>>> to grind the beans in a Krups grinder proving that even a mild 
>>> techno-geek
>>> can go low-tech on occasion.  (I do have my late mother's Cuisinart
>>> processer but my wife simply refuses to use it, preferring the old ways 
>>> of
>>> doing it by hand.  We are having strip steaks and blanched asparagus and 
>>> a
>>> bottle of Chilean red wine in a few minutes:  we do eat simply but well!)
>>> 
>>> USian citizens have rights derived from the common sovereignity and
>>> expressed in our Constitution.  The Bible does not provide any "rights" 
>>> to
>>> Chirstians as Paul makes clear that anyone saved -- and he does not
>>> restrict this to "Christians", interestingly -- is saved but through the
>>> infinite Grace of God.  We Christians do have a lot of obligations, most 
>>> of
>>> which we miss -- how many of us have ever gone down to Skid Row on
>>> Thanksgiving Morning and brought it a couple of hungover street folks 
>>> for a
>>> meal in the haven of our home? -- but at the same time we have no
>>> guarantees with Christ other than that if we throw ourselves 
>>> wholeheartedly
>>> into his service, we shall earn His happiness.  But, again, there are 
>>> only
>>> the haziest of guarantees in the Bible and I get fidgety when folks start
>>> talking about a "God-given right" to bear firearms.  The right came from
>>> the forefathers when they developed our common polity by drafting the
>>> Constitution, and is only as strong as we make it.  (I can discuss Second
>>> Amendment rights all day long but, as I note below, that is not a proper
>>> topic for discussion on the LUG., so contact me off-List, as I am not a
>>> member of the Forum.)
>>> 
>>> We can argue the radical fringes all we want but that probably belongs on
>>> the Forum and not on the LUG itself as we would soon be discussing ALL of
>>> the radical fringe elements and then we'd be into the sort of general
>>> donnybrook which makes my Riley blood elated but which causes my Hielan'
>>> ancestors to roll over in their graves at the wasting of a good fight on
>>> something which cannot be resolved.  So, the Forum is probably the place
>>> for the discussion of the social aspects of firearm ownership, while a
>>> discussion of these fine pictures is, of course, at the heart of the LUG.
>>> 
>>> Sorry to have rattled on so long, but I am responding in fine to a bunch 
>>> of
>>> comments from other members and just wanted you guys to realize that 
>>> there
>>> are gun owners on the LUG -- for that matter, our Senior Member, was 
>>> taught
>>> BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) by William Tell shortly before he did that
>>> magnificent book of combat photographs taken during the Wars of the 
>>> Roses,
>>> though I don't know that Ted has ever owned a firearm.
>>> 
>>> Marc
>>> 
>>> msmall@aya.yale.edu
>>> Cha robh b?s fir gun ghr?s fir!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> // richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, please
> use richard at imagecraft.com)
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




In reply to: Message from richard-lists at imagecraft.com (Richard) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)