Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/04/26

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Subject: [Leica] Chernobyl Legacy
From: don.dory at gmail.com (Don Dory)
Date: Wed Apr 26 04:53:41 2006
References: <4cfa589b0604251941t78ead84axe524fd38e43a6d8b@mail.gmail.com> <C0745BC8.FDAA%bdcolen@comcast.net> <4cfa589b0604252101g64544371s7890266385f65c0c@mail.gmail.com>

Adam,
Taking this thread in a completely different direction; the amount of
knowledge that chemists, biologists, and geneticists have learned about how
viruses work, DNA modifications, biology of reverse transciptase enzymes
work and a whole host of very arcane matters through the intrusion of the
AIDs virus is simply amazing.  If anyone was field testing a biological
weapon then they failed miserably as the world enjoyed a quantum leap in
knowledge.

Several weeks ago I had the benefit of talking to someone about all the
research into AIDs and how it must be very profitable.  This person reminded
me that most people who die of a disease die of a bacterial infection, not
viral.  But, the research has done wonders in our ability to change DNA.
So, besides designer wheat and corn, it may be possible in the not very
distant future to change your own DNA.  Great if you have a disease that is
genetically caused, not so great if you don't look forward the the ScFi
predictions of designer people.

Don
don.dory@gmail.com


On 4/26/06, Adam Bridge <abridge@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's always been easier to make a weapon and take life than it has to
> save it. Today, as the human genome is published and as the technology
> to make custom viruses becomes more and more accessible (even to
> weallthy individuals, let alone companies) I fear we'll see someone
> create a designer plague, either by intention or accident.
>
> For a long time I worried that AIDS was a test vector for a biological
> weapon gone astray. I guess they have proved it isn't.
>
> Adam
>
> On 4/25/06, B. D. Colen <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote:
> > What do you base your final prediction on, Adam?
> >
> >
> > On 4/25/06 10:41 PM, "Adam Bridge" <abridge@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Setting aside issues of a political nature, the Soviets chose to
> > > design a reactor plant that could never EVER be licensed in the west.
> > > The graphite core of the Soviet plant had a few very nasty
> > > characteristics: 1) it could catch on fire and 2) (the worst) it could
> > > have what's called a "positive alpha-T" - In nuclear engineering
> > > jargon that means that as the temperature of the reactor increased it
> > > would cause the nuclear reaction to increase in rate as well! That's
> > > positive feedback so when things begin to go wrong they go very wrong
> > > and they go very wrong very fast. Nuclear reactors are exponential
> > > beasts. If it takes 1 second to go from .1 % power to 10% power the
> > > next second will see power go to 1,000% and so on. Those zeros add up.
> > > Fast.
> > >
> > > The Soviets attempted to do testing of the most dangerous sort with
> > > completely insufficient protection and some safety systems may have
> > > been off-line. (It's been a while since I read the accident summary.)
> > >
> > > That said, the accident at Three Mile Island was serious and it was
> > > only the competent design of the plant and finally some presence of
> > > mind, that kept things from getting even worse. The operators forgot
> > > Rickover's dictum - repeated often in the Naval Reactor Technical
> > > Bulletins: "Believe your indications. When things go wrong you tend to
> > > see what you want to see rather than what is really there." That's
> > > good advice in other areas as well. When the TMI technicians, using
> > > core thermocouples, saw rising temperatures they chose not to believe
> > > them - in spite of the fact that there was almost nothing that could
> > > have made those readings inaccurate: we're talking about the most
> > > straightforward of measuring devices.
> > >
> > > BUT the engineers who designed the plant created a design able to
> > > overcome not only the original accident by the almost malicious
> > > decisions made after the accident which made things so much worse. The
> > > Soviet design made things worse from the start with horrendous
> > > consequences.
> > >
> > > Someday the biologists will do something MUCH worse. I hope we survive
> it.
> > >
> > > Adam Bridge
> > >
> > > On 4/25/06, Walt Johnson <walt@waltjohnson.com> wrote:
> > >> Marc:
> > >>
> > >> I'm sure nuclear disasters are very complex in  engineering terms but
> > >> this had nothing to do with my statements.  Whether or not our system
> of
> > >> checks and balances is better that  the now defunct Soviet Union is
> not
> > >> an issue. I can't help but feel our system of CYA is far superior and
> > >> Three Mile Island comes to mind.  Lack luster Russian engineering
> aside,
> > >> the  reactions of our own  (edited out in my original post) Christian
> > >> Right salivating over a "commie disaster" is hard to deny.  Holier
> than
> > >> thou always strikes me as the unholiest of all.
> > >>
> > >> Walt
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Marc James Small wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> At 03:31 PM 4/25/06 -0400, Walt Johnson wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> Unfortunately, I'll bet many right wingers  reacted to Chernobyl
> much
> > >>>> the same way the Reagan administration did to  KAL 007. You know,
> God
> > >>>> points a finger at the Evil Empire.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Walt
> > >>>
> > >>> It is a bit more complex than that.  The USSR opted for cutting some
> > >>> technical edges which ought not to have been cut, and the Chernobyl
> > >>> disaster resulted.  The only "right-wing" comment on the event was
> to point
> > >>> out the danger of allowing a single entity -- the same government
> agency --
> > >>> to design, build, and inspect something as dangerous as a nuclear
> pile.
> > >>> (In the West, nuclear plants are designed by private industry to
> government
> > >>> standards, and are inspected by an agency completely distinct from
> that
> > >>> which set out the standards, to ensure inspection by a neutral
> entity.)
> > >>>
> > >>> There are some engineers on this List who probably can speak to more
> detail
> > >>> about this, but I would direct your attention to the rather lengthy
> report
> > >>> run in THE ECONOMIST, a publication of a mildly pinkish nature,
> around 1986
> > >>> or 1987, which discussed the technical gaps the Soviets attempted to
> jump
> > >>> and did so though, in the end, unsuccessfully.  The other side is
> that
> > >>> Chernobyl was one of seeral dozens of Soviet power plants using the
> same
> > >>> technology, and the others are still in use today.  The successor
> > >>> governments will not tell us much about safety measures taken to
> ensure no
> > >>> repeat of the Chernobyl disaster.
> > >>>
> > >>> The good news is that Northern Hemisphere winds normally blow west
> to east.
> > >>> The bad news for Sweden, a nation of appallingly arrogant insistence
> that
> > >>> it had no dog in the Cold War fight, was that the winds briefly blew
> from
> > >>> Chernobyl to Sweden.  Couldn't have happened to a better
> target.  But, in
> > >>> the future, if such a problem should occur again, the radiation path
> will
> > >>> probably spread over Russia and not over western Europe.
> > >>>
> > >>> Mind you, I am not in favor of nuclear disasters but a well-run
> nuclear
> > >>> plant is the most effective method for the production of power.
> > >>>
> > >>> Marc
> > >>>
> > >>> msmall@aya.yale.edu
> > >>> Cha robh b?s fir gun ghr?s fir!
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Leica Users Group.
> > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Leica Users Group.
> > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Leica Users Group.
> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>

In reply to: Message from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) ([Leica] Chernobyl Legacy)
Message from bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Chernobyl Legacy)
Message from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) ([Leica] Chernobyl Legacy)