Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/03/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]No, not for many years. If I did though there would be a chance I'd wanna pop a cap on Barney. Je suis desolee Walt Daniel Ridings wrote: >Yeah, but he likes guns, BD. Let's not get too soft on him. > >:-) > >Daniel > >On 3/21/06, B. D. Colen <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote: > > >>Walt, your kindness and generosity of spirit know no bounds >> >> >>On 3/21/06 1:04 PM, "Walt Johnson" <walt@waltjohnson.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>>B.D.: >>> >>>Having survived the last few days of "mindless banter" (I did my share) >>>here on the LUG taught me something. Just finished reading your last >>>post and firmed up my otherwise flighty thoughts. You are one hell of a >>>fine writer and have that gift you mentioned yourself. I only hope your >>>students and those here will pay close attention. >>> >>>Walt >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. But try >>>>to >>>>be what, and try what? >>>> >>>>Yes, one has to be pretty hopeless in many ways not to be able to take a >>>>"decent" photograph. But I firmly believe that to go much beyond that one >>>>has to have some sort of inborn 'gift,' just as I believe that to be >>>>able to >>>>write well, play music well, paint well, one has to have a 'gift.' In >>>>photography, that 'gift' is an 'eye ' - no, I can't define any of this. >>>> >>>>No one I know of has HCB's 'eye.' So why try to be HCB? Study his work? >>>>Absolutely. Try to figure out what it is about it that makes it so >>>>special? >>>>Sure. Try to emulate that "specialness" in your own work? Sure. But given >>>>that most people think of HCB as a 'photo journalist,' or a documentary >>>>photographer, rather than as an 'art photographer,' how in (*)_*(_ are >>>>they >>>>going to even attempt to emulate him? ;-) I know, for example, that many >>>>people think very highly of HCB's portraits; I don't. I think that, as a >>>>body work, they are - with a few very obvious examples - his weakest >>>>work. >>>>Why? Because they required directly engaging with people, and I don't >>>>think >>>>that people particularly interested old Henri - I think he was far more >>>>interested in people's physical form, and the images he could create >>>>using >>>>their forms as compositional elements. >>>> >>>>I believe, that rather than trying to emulate our photographic 'heroes' - >>>>and we all have them - we have to get them out of our heads so that we >>>>can, >>>>as you so sagely observe, find our own voices. >>>> >>>>But beyond all that, I made my first comment in response to what I few as >>>>this nonsensical apparent belief that emulating HCB has something to do >>>>with >>>>equipment. Why is that nonsensical? Because if I believe that if he had >>>>been >>>>photographing during the last 20 years of his life, rather than drawing - >>>>and what does that tell you? - HCB would have been photographing with the >>>>latest M bodies and the latest Leica glass - and his images would have >>>>had a >>>>different look than his earlier images, shot with softer lenses, had. >>>> >>>>Best >>>>B. D. >>>> >>>> >>>>On 3/21/06 11:35 AM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>B.D., >>>>> >>>>>I think that every artist - in any field - has to find his or her own >>>>>voice, >>>>>and I think that another way of thinking of learning to be a >>>>>photographer, a >>>>>writer, a musician, or an artist is that it as a journey toward finding >>>>>one's >>>>>own voice. Learning to take pictures in the style of HCB, write music >>>>>in the >>>>>style of Beethoven, or paint pictures that look like Monet is an useful >>>>>part >>>>>of the journey because it requires thinking about what you are >>>>>perceiving >>>>>and >>>>>then working out how to use the various technical things available to >>>>>you so >>>>>that you can reproduce it. Beyond that I am wondering about the creative >>>>>value >>>>>of imitating the work of a great master. Imitation may be the sincerest >>>>>form >>>>>of flattery, but HCB was already there and already did that. >>>>> >>>>>I think that in one sense you are exactly right. I play the cello in my >>>>>secret >>>>>life. To play like Yo-Yo Ma or Pierre Fournier or any master you should >>>>>choose >>>>>to name probably really does require both that you be born with some >>>>>special >>>>>gifts, start your education while still quite young, and that you devote >>>>>hours >>>>>and hours and hours to learning your art. Fair enough. But, there's an >>>>>exclusionary implication to this arguement which I also think needs to >>>>>be >>>>>put >>>>>on the table. That's this. The blunt truth is that most of us aren't >>>>>born >>>>>with >>>>>the gifts to be virtuosi in any field. But, that doesn't mean that one >>>>>can't >>>>>learn. There are very few tone deaf people. There are very few people >>>>>who, >>>>>if >>>>>they are motivated, can't learn to play the cello well enough to play >>>>>in a >>>>>community orchestra, and there are some surprisingly good community >>>>>orchestras >>>>>around. There are very few people who, if they are willing to put in the >>>>>effort, can't learn to take decent photographs. >>>>> >>>>>I know that you didn't say that people can't learn, and I know that you >>>>>don't >>>>>believe that. I just wanted to say that just because most of us aren't >>>>>born >>>>>with the special gifts of HCB doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. I am >>>>>under >>>>>no illusions about the absolute level of my abilities as either a >>>>>cellist or >>>>>a >>>>>photographer. But, I think that the arts are of vital importance. I >>>>>have no >>>>>idea why. It's just what I think. And, I think that learning to take >>>>>pictures, >>>>>write, play, whatever, is a wonderful journey and I think that each >>>>>person >>>>>who >>>>>goes on that journey makes the world a better place in ways I cant' >>>>>explain. >>>>>And I definitly think that the world would be a much better place if >>>>>more >>>>>people spent their time trying to learn to create rather then shooting >>>>>at >>>>>each >>>>>other. >>>>> >>>>>Sorry, just felt like posting something this morning,. >>>>> >>>>>Barney >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>"B. D. Colen" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>The only way to get photos "like HCB" has nothing to do with what >>>>>>lenses >>>>>>you have in a drawer, or what camera you use them on; it is to be born >>>>>>with >>>>>>his artistic ability and sensibility. HCB would have shot "like HCB no >>>>>>matter what equipment he had used, as long as that equipment had >>>>>>allowed >>>>>>him to realize his vision. I'd concentrate on developing the vision, >>>>>>not >>>>>>trying to ape the style. ;-) >>>>>>B. D. >>>>>>___ >>>>>>Sent with SnapperMail >>>>>>www.snappermail.com >>>>>> >>>>>>...... Original Message ....... >>>>>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:13:17 -0800 Richard >>>>>><richard-lists@imagecraft.com> >>>>>>wrote: >>>>>>"Why not, we all have at least a Leica body or lens right? >>>>>>" >>>>>>"Most of us suffer from equipment-itis, you know, the urge to say, "If >>>>>>I >>>>>>"only have that XYZ, I can get that photo just like what's his name >>>>>>HCB!" I >>>>>>"contend that this is harder to do if you start the Leica obsession >>>>>>late so >>>>>>"you don't already have a drawer full of Elmars, Summicrons, etc. I >>>>>>mean if >>>>>>"the drawer already has a few ASPH 'luxes or 'crons of different focal >>>>>>"lengths, there aren't a whole lot of (logical) reasons to get anything >>>>>>else! >>>>>>" >>>>>>"Discuss,... or not. >>>>>>" >>>>>>"// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, >>>>>>please >>>>>>"use richard at imagecraft.com) >>>>>>" >>>>>>" >>>>>>"_______________________________________________ >>>>>>"Leica Users Group. >>>>>>"See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>-- >>>>>Barney Quinn, Jr. >>>>>(301) 688-1982 (O) >>>>>(240) 535-3036 (C) >>>>>(877) 220-0981 (P) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>Leica Users Group. >>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Leica Users Group. >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Leica Users Group. >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Leica Users Group. >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > >