Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/03/21

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Subject: [Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion
From: dlridings at gmail.com (Daniel Ridings)
Date: Tue Mar 21 11:00:30 2006
References: <C0459CAB.E34A%bdcolen@comcast.net> <44204026.4040009@waltjohnson.com>

You know Walt, ... I like the LUG too :-)

Daniel

On 3/21/06, Walt Johnson <walt@waltjohnson.com> wrote:
> B.D.:
>
> Having survived the last few days of "mindless banter" (I did my share)
> here on the LUG taught me something. Just finished reading your last
> post and firmed up my otherwise flighty thoughts. You are one hell of a
> fine writer and have that gift you mentioned yourself. I only hope your
> students and those here will pay close attention.
>
> Walt
>
> >Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. But try to
> >be what, and try what?
> >
> >Yes, one has to be pretty hopeless in many ways not to be able to take a
> >"decent" photograph. But I firmly believe that to go much beyond that one
> >has to have some sort of inborn 'gift,' just as I believe that to be able 
> >to
> >write well, play music well, paint well, one has to have a 'gift.' In
> >photography, that 'gift' is an 'eye ' - no, I can't define any of this.
> >
> >No one I know of has HCB's 'eye.' So why try to be HCB? Study his work?
> >Absolutely. Try to figure out what it is about it that makes it so 
> >special?
> >Sure. Try to emulate that "specialness" in your own work? Sure. But given
> >that most people think of HCB as a 'photo journalist,' or a documentary
> >photographer, rather than as an 'art photographer,' how in (*)_*(_ are 
> >they
> >going to even attempt to emulate him? ;-) I know, for example, that many
> >people think very highly of HCB's portraits; I don't. I think that, as a
> >body work, they are - with a few very obvious examples - his weakest work.
> >Why? Because they required directly engaging with people, and I don't 
> >think
> >that people particularly interested old Henri - I think he was far more
> >interested in people's physical form, and the images he could create using
> >their forms as compositional elements.
> >
> >I believe, that rather than trying to emulate our photographic 'heroes' -
> >and we all have them - we have to get them out of our heads so that we 
> >can,
> >as you so sagely observe, find our own voices.
> >
> >But beyond all that, I made my first comment in response to what I few as
> >this nonsensical apparent belief that emulating HCB has something to do 
> >with
> >equipment. Why is that nonsensical? Because if I believe that if he had 
> >been
> >photographing during the last 20 years of his life, rather than drawing -
> >and what does that tell you? - HCB would have been photographing with the
> >latest M bodies and the latest Leica glass - and his images would have 
> >had a
> >different look than his earlier images, shot with softer lenses, had.
> >
> >Best
> >B. D.
> >
> >
> >On 3/21/06 11:35 AM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>B.D.,
> >>
> >>I think that every artist - in any field - has to find his or her own 
> >>voice,
> >>and I think that another way of thinking of learning to be a 
> >>photographer, a
> >>writer, a musician, or an artist is that it as a journey toward finding 
> >>one's
> >>own voice. Learning to take pictures in the style of HCB, write music in 
> >>the
> >>style of Beethoven, or paint pictures that look like Monet is an useful 
> >>part
> >>of the journey because it requires thinking about what you are 
> >>perceiving and
> >>then working out how to use the various technical things available to 
> >>you so
> >>that you can reproduce it. Beyond that I am wondering about the creative 
> >>value
> >>of imitating the work of a great master. Imitation may be the sincerest 
> >>form
> >>of flattery, but HCB was already there and already did that.
> >>
> >>I think that in one sense you are exactly right. I play the cello in my 
> >>secret
> >>life. To play like Yo-Yo Ma or Pierre Fournier or any master you should 
> >>choose
> >>to name probably really does require both that you be born with some 
> >>special
> >>gifts, start your education while still quite young, and that you devote 
> >>hours
> >>and hours and hours to learning your art. Fair enough. But, there's an
> >>exclusionary implication to this arguement which I also think needs to 
> >>be put
> >>on the table. That's this. The blunt truth is that most of us aren't 
> >>born with
> >>the gifts to be virtuosi in any field. But, that doesn't mean that one 
> >>can't
> >>learn. There are very few tone deaf people. There are very few people 
> >>who, if
> >>they are motivated, can't learn to play the cello well enough to play in 
> >>a
> >>community orchestra, and there are some surprisingly good community 
> >>orchestras
> >>around. There are very few people who, if they are willing to put in the
> >>effort, can't learn to take decent photographs.
> >>
> >>I know that you didn't say that people can't learn, and I know that you 
> >>don't
> >>believe that. I just wanted to say that just because most of us aren't 
> >>born
> >>with the special gifts of HCB doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. I am 
> >>under
> >>no illusions about the absolute level of my abilities as either a 
> >>cellist or a
> >>photographer. But, I think that the arts are of vital importance. I have 
> >>no
> >>idea why. It's just what I think. And, I think that learning to take 
> >>pictures,
> >>write, play, whatever, is a wonderful journey and I think that each 
> >>person who
> >>goes on that journey makes the world a better place in ways I cant' 
> >>explain.
> >>And I definitly think that the world would be a much better place if more
> >>people spent their time trying to learn to create rather then shooting 
> >>at each
> >>other.
> >>
> >>Sorry, just felt like posting something this morning,.
> >>
> >>Barney
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>"B. D. Colen" wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>The only way to get photos "like HCB" has nothing to do with what lenses
> >>>you have in a drawer, or what camera you use them on; it is to be born 
> >>>with
> >>>his artistic ability and sensibility. HCB would have shot "like HCB no
> >>>matter what equipment he had used, as long as that equipment had allowed
> >>>him to realize his vision. I'd concentrate on developing the vision, not
> >>>trying to ape the style. ;-)
> >>>B. D.
> >>>___
> >>>Sent with SnapperMail
> >>>www.snappermail.com
> >>>
> >>>...... Original Message .......
> >>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:13:17 -0800 Richard 
> >>><richard-lists@imagecraft.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>"Why not, we all have at least a Leica body or lens right?
> >>>"
> >>>"Most of us suffer from equipment-itis, you know, the urge to say, "If I
> >>>"only have that XYZ, I can get that photo just like what's his name 
> >>>HCB!" I
> >>>"contend that this is harder to do if you start the Leica obsession 
> >>>late so
> >>>"you don't already have a drawer full of Elmars, Summicrons, etc. I 
> >>>mean if
> >>>"the drawer already has a few ASPH 'luxes or 'crons of different focal
> >>>"lengths, there aren't a whole lot of (logical) reasons to get anything
> >>>else!
> >>>"
> >>>"Discuss,... or not.
> >>>"
> >>>"// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, 
> >>>please
> >>>"use richard at imagecraft.com)
> >>>"
> >>>"
> >>>"_______________________________________________
> >>>"Leica Users Group.
> >>>"See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>Leica Users Group.
> >>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>>
> >>--
> >>Barney Quinn, Jr.
> >>(301) 688-1982 (O)
> >>(240) 535-3036 (C)
> >>(877) 220-0981 (P)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>Leica Users Group.
> >>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Leica Users Group.
> >See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


In reply to: Message from bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion)
Message from walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson) ([Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion)