Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/05/18

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Subject: [Leica] PAW 20 Millenium Bridge and St. Paul's - Try this!!
From: philippe.orlent at pandora.be (Philippe Orlent)
Date: Wed May 18 04:25:59 2005

Yes I did like it.
You captured it well, because IMO there aren't many angles one can shoot the
Millenium Bridge in a beautiful way, even if it begs to be shot from no
matter what angle.
I didn't comment on it because I have a tendency to go for more contrasted
images, but
1) computerscreens (even calibrated ones) can be deceptive;
2) most of the people on the LUG seem to like more "balanced" thus not (so)
contrasted images.

Philippe



> From: Peter Dzwig <pdzwig@summaventures.com>
> Organization: Summa Ventures Ltd
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 11:41:03 +0100
> To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] PAW 20 Millenium Bridge and St. Paul's - Try this!!
> 
> Philippe,
> 
> "Verticals" can be deceiving. This was taken from the other end of the 
> bridge:
> 
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/album28/StPaulsSteps200505
> 
> the building nearest you on the St. Paul's side of the road actually has
> verticals that DO slant back by 2 - 3 degrees (check against the pillars, 
> the
> buildings opposite on the left, buildings behind etc). The path is 
> cambered.
> 
> It would appear that the steps aren't exactly centred on the window (not 
> main
> entrance.
> 
> See also:
> 
> http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M?X=532057&Y=180754&A=Y&Z=1
> 
> where it is very apparent that St. Pauls doesn't run sue East-West (altar 
> at
> East end, but slightly North of East and the river and buildings run ESE.
> 
> The plate glass in the original photo means that there are all sorts of
> deceptive lines and planes and half-mirrored images floating about which 
> also
> give (and gave the photographer) optical illusions. I was interested in 
> trying
> to maintain reflections and also to get St. Paul's in place.
> 
> But in any case, did you like the shot? which after all is what it is all
> about.
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> Philippe Orlent wrote:
> 
>> The strange thing with the shot is that if you level the horizon (1.72? 
>> CCW)
>> it still doesn't look horizontal. If you put the verticals at 90? (as is 
>> the
>> original), it isn't either. If you level the pavement in front of the 
>> bridge
>> (0.85? CCW), it starts to look horizontal. But the verticals aren't 100%
>> vertical any more.
>> 
>> So it might have something to do with cam tilt.
>> Then again, if it were cam tilt, the verticals wouldn't be parallel. Which
>> they are.
>> 
>> So it might have something to do with your VF frame that isn't 100% 
>> parallel
>> with your cam body. Which would be strange because it would have shown up 
>> in
>> other shots, too.
>> 
>> So it migh have something to do with the fact that (if so) it is a RF: the
>> main entrance of St. Paul's is slightly of centre, as often happens when 
>> you
>> try to frame objects behind each other in one axis in the centre of the 
>> VF:
>> the final result is seldomly dead on and plays strange optical tricks with
>> the eye. But that wouldn't explain everything.
>> 
>> I'm pretty sure that you saw it dead centre through your VF and that it
>> looked symmetrical when you shot it.
>> 
>> So my guess is that the bridge is a bit to the left of the axis of St.
>> Paul's. Thus, you being in the centre of the bridge and following the
>> bridge's axis, the horizon tilted a bit CW, keeping the verticals 
>> parallel.
>> This rises an interesting question: did Foster make (apart from the
>> oscillation issue) an architectural mistake? The bridge sure doesn't seem
>> out of the axis of St-Paul's at first sight, but it might be. I can't
>> remember what the situation was when I visited Tate Modern, but I would 
>> have
>> seen it, though. I suppose he chose to be perpendicular to the Thames, and
>> St. Paul's is just not parallel to the river. In other words, Sir
>> Christopher Wren made the "mistake"?
>> 
>> I seems to be the latter:
>> 
>> http://www.ph.ucla.edu/epi/snow/1859map/map1859_j-l_19-21.html
>> Or
>> http://tinyurl.com/a2fcy
>> 
>> In any case: I don't think it is possible to get it perfect when shooting 
>> or
>> by just tilting the horizon: some more Photoshop fiddling might be needed,
>> if you feel like it :-)
>> 
>> Hey, this is fun!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Peter Dzwig <pdzwig@summaventures.com>
>>> Organization: Summa Ventures Ltd
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 09:18:11 +0100
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug@leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] PAW 20 Millenium Bridge and St. Paul's - Try this!!
>>> 
>>> Douglas Sharp wrote:
>>> 
>>>  This could infer a tiny bit
>>> 
>>>> of lens distortion, that the camera was not quite in the horizontal
>>>> plane, possibly tilted up a bit, or that the scanned negative was not
>>>> quite flat.
>>> 
>>> Think I was sober..no seriously since I have a slight astigmatism it's 
>>> not
>>> inconceivable that I didn't notoce that I was slightly off level.
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your help.
>>> 
>>> Keep looking,
>>> 
>>> Peter
>>> 
>>>> cheers
>>>> Douglas
>>>> 
>>>> Peter Dzwig wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Douglas Sharp wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> An excellent shot Peter,
>>>>>> love the symmetry!
>>>>>> but couldn't it take a slight correction of the horizontal?
>>>>>> I think its about 1 or 1.5 degrees out of kilter. Otherwise perfect
>>>>>> for me.
>>>>>> cheers
>>>>>> Douglas
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Douglas and List,
>>>>> 
>>>>> see which one you you think is straight...
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/album164/MilleniumBridge200505
>>>>> 
>>>>> the original
>>>>> 
>>>>> or:
>>>>> 
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/album164/MilleniumBridge200505Rot1
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think that it is it straightened...it took 0.4 degrees of rotation.
>>>>> If that does truly fix it (I am not entirely sure) Douglas you have
>>>>> very sharp eyes!!
>>>>> 
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
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>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
>  
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> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 




In reply to: Message from pdzwig at summaventures.com (Peter Dzwig) ([Leica] PAW 20 Millenium Bridge and St. Paul's - Try this!!)