Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/04/21

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Subject: [Leica] End of an Era, Tak of Mac Camera Retires
From: ahgraves at prodigy.net (Allen Graves)
Date: Thu Apr 21 17:14:39 2005
References: <002101c546ce$9476fb40$6401a8c0@dorysrusp4>

Don't forget the ill effects that Prozac excreted in urine and 
flushed into the rivers is supposedly causing in fish in England. 
California could only be worse.

Allen

>Slobodon,
>Photo Industry practice in California is to cart all the waste to Nevada
>and dispose of it there.  That is the law in California for a commercial
>lab.  The reality of photochemistry for a modern process, C41 or E6, is
>that after the silver is removed and all the chemistry is mixed there is
>very little toxic possibility left.  Remember, this is all very reactive
>stuff, it is designed to convert other chemicals very quickly.  That
>means that it will decompose into fairly safe chemicals rather rapidly.
>
>If this concerns you, what about all the thousands of people overdosing
>on vitamins in LA-LA land and putting that into the water shed.  Also
>biologically active chemicals going out in the thousands of pounds.
>
>Don
>dorysrus@mindspring.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org
>[mailto:lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf
>Of Slobodan Dimitrov
>Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:33 PM
>To: Leica Users Group
>Subject: Re: [Leica] End of an Era, Tak of Mac Camera Retires
>
>It's the disposal after use that concerns the city.
>We need to have a paper trail showing what is done with the chemistry.
>The city engineer assigned to look into this does not have a formal
>background with photo industry practices.
>S. Dimitrov
>
>
>On Apr 21, 2005, at 9:25 AM, GREG LORENZO wrote:
>
>>  Slobodan, Patterson (I believe) makes environmently friendly dark room
>
>>  chemicals. Have you looked into this?
>>
>>  Regards,
>>
>>  Greg
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Slobodan Dimitrov <s.dimitrov@charter.net>
>>  Date: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:09 am
>>  Subject: Re: [Leica] End of an Era, Tak of Mac Camera Retires
>>
>>>  Once B/W hits $15 to $20 a roll, for quality film, that will be
>>>  just
>>>  about enough for the amateur at play.
>>>  I'm already having permit and disposal problems with the City of
>>>  Los
>>>  Angeles over the photo center at Angels Gate Culture Center.
>>>  I'm currently looking for a white knight like Waste Management,
>>>  etc.,
>>>  who can take over that problem as write-off with a non-profit.
>>>  I suspect that in the not too far off future home processing for
>>>  the
>>>  amateur will become a felony offense because of hazardous waste.
>>>  Although in Los Angeles County each household is allowed 150lbs of
>>>  haz-mat materials per year. That's more than enough for the
>>>  average
>>>  home printer.
>>>  S. Dimitrov
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Apr 20, 2005, at 12:37 PM, TTAbrahams@aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>   It is obvious that the midrange collectibles are losing value
>>>>  quickly. In
>>>>  Tokyo the "mint" M3's and M4's are now at a price level that a
>>>  couple
>>>>  of years
>>>>  ago would have got you a user version of the same camera. My
>>>  feeling
>>>>  is that we
>>>>  are looking at an "adjustment" as the stock brokers call it.
>>>>  Remember the classic car bubble in the 90's. Cars that sold for
>>>  $10
>>>>  million+
>>>>  are now lingering at the specialist stores for 20-30% of that
>>>  price
>>>>  with no
>>>>  takers even at that discount!
>>>>   There are only so many collectors out there and most of them
>>>  have all
>>>>  the
>>>>  rare stuff already. The big market was the collector/user market
>>>  and
>>>>  that is
>>>>  changing as we speak. I am fairly typical of that market segment
>>>  and
>>>>  albeit I am
>>>>  willing to pay fair value for a M2/M3 or Nikon SP I now have
>  >> more than
>>>>  I can
>>>>  comfortably use (and justify). When I go to stores in Tokyo or
>>>  to swap
>>>>  meet
>>>>  here in Vancouver I am no longer looking for cameras, I look for
>>>>  lenses,
>>>>  accessories and "gadgets" instead.
>>>>   The one camera that I am buying at the moment is the Nikon F - my
>>>>  justification is that I need several bodies for my experimental
>>>>  Rapidwinder F (extremely
>>>>  limited production of 6-7 of them) but truth be told - I just
>  >> like that
>>>>  camera. It is one of the most brilliant designs in 35mm camera.
>>>  You
>>>>  can add motors,
>>>>  meter prisms, special finders, etc. or you can strip it down to
>>>  a
>>>>  basic box.
>>>>  Lenses are plentiful and cheap (and good!). Oh, it is noisy and
>>>  not
>>>>  very
>>>>  sophisticated but that is the charm of that camera. It is the
>>>  SLR
>>>>  equivalent of the
>>>>  Leica M2 or Nikon S2. Unfortunately other people have realised
>>>  that
>>>>  too and
>>>>  prices are creeping up. "Beater" bodies used to be $ 50-75 and
>>>  are now
>>>>  almost
>>>>  double that. On the other hand I can buy 8-10 of them for what a
>>>  user
>>>>  M3 or M2
>>>>  would be! At the latest swap here in Vancouver I got a Nikon F
>>>  with a
>>>>  Prism
>>>>  finder (dented and scratched but clear prism) and an early
>>>  28/3,5 for
>>>>  $120!
>>>>   Karen's hope for a clean Nikon SP for US$ 1500 is quite
>>>  feasible. In
>>>>  the
>>>>  last year prices in Tokyo have dropped by almost 40% and will
>>>  probably
>>>>  drop
>>>>  further after the introduction of the Limited Edition black
>>>  paint
>>>>  Nikon SP. It is a
>>>>  gorgeous camera and I would dearly love one, but at $7000+ I can
>>>>  resist it
>>>>  (now the lens is an other matter - a modern 35/1,8 could be
>>>>  interesting and most
>>>>  likely a bit more flare resistant than my old one).
>>>>   As for the slow decline in black and white film availability -
>>>  I
>>>>  suspect
>>>>  that in the future we will have to seek out speciality stores
>>>  for our
>>>>  needs.
>>>>  Kodak claims that they will continue to make films like Tri-X
>>>  for the
>>>>  foreseeable
>>>>  future (however, they did not define "foreseeable"). It could be
>>>  that> black/white film and chemicals will be more of an "artist"
>>>  supply than
>>>>  an "imaging
>>>>  store" supply.
>>>>   The biggest problem is going to be chemicals - Kodak is getting
>>>  out
>>>>  of it
>>>>  and even basic stuff like Metol, Hydroquinone, and Phenodine is
>>>>  getting
>>>>  difficult to find and the prepackaged stuff - D76, Microdol-X
>>>  etc. in
>>>>  the stores now
>>>>  is more often than not old stock. Well, pick up a copy of Steve
>>>>  Anchells'
>>>>  "Darkroom Cookbook" and make your own. The Photographers
>>>  Formulary
>>>>  stocks most of
>>>>  everything you need and as a bonus - it is considerably cheaper
>>>  than
>>>>  buying
>>>>  "ready-mix". We should remember that the idea of packaged
>>>  developer is
>>>>  fairly
>>>>  recent. As late as the 50's it was quite common to mix your own
>>>  from
>>>>  scratch
>>>>  (with the added benefit of adjusting formulas to your own
>>>  shooting
>>>>  style).
>>>>   As for film, try the Chinese "Lucky" - its 400 ASA film is
>>>  quite
>>>>  good. The
>>>>  base is different from Tri-X but the sharpness and grain is good
>>>>  (grain is
>>>>  finer than Tri-X). You can develop it as if it is Tri-X in D-76
>>>  but in
>>>>  Xtol it
>>>>  does not work very well (almost two stops off!) At $ 1,69/roll
>>>  it is a
>>>>  bargain
>>>>  and as I buy film in quantity (600-1200 rolls at a time) a $2
>>>  saving
>>>>  per roll
>>>>  makes a big difference. The difference pays for a couple of
>>>>  interesting lenses
>>>>  or more camera bodies - or even more important - airline tickets
>>>  to
>>>>  places I
>>>>  haven't been to yet!
>>>>   There seems to be enough interest among camera users to ensure
>>>  that
>>>>  the old
>>>>  mechanical cameras will survive and the black/white devotees
>>>  among us
>>>>  might
>>>>  have to change some of our ways, but for the foreseeable future
>>>  I
>>>>  think we are
>>>>  safe. Maybe if enough of us ask Epson or HP for a dedicated
>>>>  black/white printer
>>>>  they will make it. I would use it for proofing but for final
>>>  prints -
>>>>  nothing
>>>>  beats fiber base in a darkroom - at least in my opinion.
>  >>> Tom A
>>>>  ---------------------
>>>>  Tom Abrahamsson
>>>>  Vancouver, BC
>>>>  Canada
>>>>  www.rapidwinder.com
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  Leica Users Group.
>>>>  See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>  Slobodan Dimitrov
>>>  http://sdimitrovphoto.com
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  Leica Users Group.
>>>  See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>  >>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Leica Users Group.
>>  See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>Slobodan Dimitrov
>http://sdimitrovphoto.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


In reply to: Message from dorysrus at mindspring.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] End of an Era, Tak of Mac Camera Retires)