Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/04/10
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]B.D. There is a lot of very poor sampling going on with respect to digital camera sales. Kodak is claiming #1 status, and so is Canon. I suspect all digital camera sales claims depend on reading the fine print. Kodak's claims are probably shipments not actual sales, Canons are based on actual retail transactions, but they didn't count big box chains. The last numbers I saw from PMA had Olympus number five or six, behind Kodak, Sony, Canon, and Nikon. I didn't bother to read the fine print so the above is probably meaningless. What does have meaning is that Canon reported record profits, Nikon reported good profits, Sony was profitable but in a conglomerate who knows. Kodak's earnings for the fourth quarter were heavily weighted by shipments of the co-branded Lexar memory cards. How many have been actually sold and how many re-orders would be something to look at for the first and second quarter. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D. Colen Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 5:10 PM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] For B.D. I may be wrong, but I believe that Olympus is No.3 in overall digital sales - beyond Canon and Nikon. Obviously the overwhelming bulk of those sales are P&S. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Don Dory Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 5:31 PM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] For B.D. B.D. My revelation as to soccer moms was at a camera store in Dallas near SMU. They had sold something like 10 1Ds's and 100-400 zooms to families that wanted to record their children. The same is true here in Atlanta, I have one friend that popped for a 400 2.8 to take pictures at high school football games. Then there are the wrestling moms that bought 50 1.4 lenses to take pictures of their children on the mat. Ordinary families are buying 70-200 F2.8 lenses to take sports pictures of their children. When it comes to children and memories, people will spend a pile if the tool really works. When it comes to sensor size, the 20D and I assume the D200 will have 8-10MP and a fully useable 3200 ISO: which makes a 2.8 zoom possible to live with. Then there are the 24 and 28 F1.4 lenses in the competitors line up for people who shoot in dim light without flash. I am not sure that the F2 zooms will be enough to bring things around for the pro market. As to the amateur market, that is all about marketing and availability at your local Wally World. If Olympus wants to go beyond the market share they had with the OM system, they really need to get word and product out. Here in Atlanta, Pentax is outselling Olympus in both P&S and DSLR by quite a large margin. 0.02 Don dorysrus@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D. Colen Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:13 PM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] For B.D. Sorry, Don - But I want that f2 zoom to shoot at 800, and only at 1600 once and a while - just as I shot with my Ms...and my M lens line up was 2.8 at 21mm, f2 at 28, 1.4 at 35, 1.5 at 50, and f 20 at 90...So thus far I don't have the 1.4 - but I'll end up with pretty similar capabilities. I disagree that the sensor size is a lemon, and would suggest that the recent Panasonic sign on suggests that that former Leica partner sees some viability in it. The real question is going to be how firmware develops, and whether that ultimate overcomes the noise. As to soccer Moms, let's get real here - most will by a P&S with a sensor the size of a pea, or a cheap DSLR with a 4.5 to 6.3 zoom, to crank out 4x6s and noise really isn't an issue for them, because they'll pop the damn flash most of the time. :-) (Haven't you ever wondered about all those stadium concerts and events with the literally thousands of people sitting five miles up in the stands firing their P&S film cameras with the flashes? :-) ) B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Don Dory Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:39 PM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] For B.D. Feli, Olympus is trying to turn the lemon of a sensor size into lemonade by creating fast glass so that 800ISO at F2 is the same as 1600 as F2.8. With the emphasis on limited DOF in the fashion world I give them a fair chance of pulling it off. Naw, the soccer mom shooting soccer or football will not be able to keep enough in focus at F2, and there are some really good lenses from independent manufacturers that are 2.8, quite good, quite cheap, and in the other guys mounts. Again, I think Olympus is in a niche market with the 4/3 system. A very good system that only a few people will appreciate. :( Don dorysrus@mindspring.com -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+dorysrus=mindspring.com@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Feli Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 11:40 AM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] For B.D. On Apr 10, 2005, at 5:07 AM, B. D. Colen wrote: > Boy, there's a shocker!:-) There's only one problem with all of it, and > I say this as an Olympus whore - Shocking, isn't it? ;-) > thus far, the smaller sensor does seem > to translate into more noise at higher isos. It may well be that this > can be overcome, but there seems little question that at this point, > the Canon DSLR's provide the lowest noise levels. And that right there is my problem with the 4/3 system. I simply don't think they will be able to get the noise levels down, given the size of the chip, especially above 800asa. Both Nikon and Canon are struggling to keep things clean with the slightly bigger APS size. It a shame because it looks like a very nice system They recently announced a 14-35mm (35mm equiv: 28-70mm) f2.0 and 35-100mm (35mm equiv: 70-200mm) f2.0. No one else is making fast glass like that. feli ________________________________________________________ feli2@earthlink.net 2 + 2 = 4 www.elanphotos.com _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information