Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/01/23
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]There are two big problems with this analysis, Scott - 1. In terms of suggesting that the way to go - film and digital - is with drastically lower price points, etc.: The company you're describing isn't Leica; never has been, never will be. If Leica can put out a Leica quality $1500 body, and $750-$1500 lenses, the move begs two questions - a. Why not just buy Cosina or Zeiss? Two, what the hell have they been doing ripping us off all these years? ;-) 2. The landscape is not littered with people waiting to jump into the world of film. The world of film is the Titanic with it's stern in the air; most people have already made it into the digital boats, or have slipped into the ocean, and there is a handful of diehards clinging to the stern rail screaming "film forever!" The question is not how to attract new masses to Leica, it's how to hang on to the fanboys (and girls) and what kind of digital product to introduce to hopefully capture a new user base. Oh, and as to the idea of an M that requires new lenses - good bleeping luck. The only thing that will now draw people to a Leica digital RF - well, will draw the people who are NOT prepared to buy everything Leica builds simply because it has the name Leica on it - is a desire to use the lenses in which they have invested so much money, and which are clearly high quality. But an entirely new digital product that requires all new lenses - at Leica prices? No way. B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Scott McLoughlin Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2005 2:55 AM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] Doomed: Leica MP 0.58x This is on target. -1- Leica has a great product and a great brand. Folks want them. P&S scale market? No way. But lots of serious amateurs sitting on the sidelines of the Leica shooting experience. -2- The product price is just too high. Too high for what? Too high for contemporary customer expectations of camera and lens prices. -3- If Leica can make a good product at a lower price, their customer base will expand. They have the potential to move more product. What are those prices? Don't know, needs research. Maybe a $1.5K new body. $750 - $1.5K lenses. At customer-perceived reasonable (but still premium) prices, Leica will move bodies and glass. -4- Zeiss will be hitting roughly the right price point IMHO. If Zeiss can show their commitment to the product line, that they're in it for the long haul, that they'll deliver upgraded product over time - then Zeiss will capture many folks waiting on the sidelines for an affordable RF experience. -5- Leica's job is to deliver truly quality product at a lower price. They can deliver quality without virtually hand manufacturing the things in Portugal/Germany. They need to do whatever it takes. -6- Leica needs to deliver a more than credible RF, exchangable lens digital camera. Should be M mount, but IMHO, doesn't have to be (I'd like it to be). A $5K digital M body will be DOA. The point of a digital body is to catch up, grow the customer base and start moving more glass. -7- Again, Leica has a great product and brand. There is demand. But the prices are skyrocketing out of control, and Leica reeks of imminent morbidity. -8- I love Leica stuff. I've been buying near mint chrome M6TTL's and used recent lenses for reasonable prices and feeling somewhat guilty for not buying new gear from Leica/dealers. Leica needs to bring Leica buyers back into a relationship with the company. Scott Feli wrote: > You're right. They need to do something and when it comes to glass > they are king. > If they could manage to make their lenses in Canon mount with automatic > stop down metering, they would sell a bundle. But I doubt that their > pride would allow them > to do so. > > The other problem i see is that Leica gear is simply too expensive. I > have friends who > were interested in buying an M, but when they saw the price tag they > dropped the idea. > But I am not sure how to solve that. Move production out of Germany? > > Whatever they do, they need a digital M camera asap and it needs to be > a killer piece of gear. Full frame, minimum of 12MP, weather sealed, > aimed at professionals.. I don't care of it doesn't use all, or none > of the current lenses. Canon screwed everyone when they changed mounts > and after the riots died down everything was ok. People who make a > living with their gear will drop the money on it if it's the right > tool for the job at hand. I've talked to several production > photographers, and almost all of them would buy one, because they need > a compact, quiet camera, with fast lenses that works well in the dark. > > I also think they should team up with someone and license the guts of > a good 8MP > SLR and produce it with an R-mount. Make two models, one for $1500 and > a sturdier one for more. > > I think Hasselblad is being a lot smarter about the future than Leica > and if they don't do something soon they are going to be finished. But > I would also bet that at that point ,they get bought by a big Japanese > firm... > > > feli > > > > > On Jan 21, 2005, at 9:59 AM, B. D. Colen wrote: > >> Ah, but wouldn't Leica be ahead of the game working out a deal with >> Canon, where by Canon would get some sort of licensing fee for each >> lens sold in a working Canon mount? >> >> The point is that Leica needs to do SOMETHING if it's going to >> survive. Producing an extremely expensive digital backs for an R line >> that is already losing money - as wonderful as the cameras may be - >> isn't going to be the thing that saves Leica. And, as Frank pointed >> out, Leica's reputation lays with it's glass. There has to be a way >> for them to capitalize on that. >> >> Why don't they start advertising the glass for use with adapters on >> Canon EOS bodies? Use photos and endorsements from life-long Leica >> shooters... > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > feli2@earthlink.net 2 + 2 = 4 > www.elanphotos.com > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information