Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/01/11
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]On 1/10/05 11:20 PM, "Bill Marshall" <billgem@hotmail.com> typed: > Mark, come back to us. You're way out there. > > "Insulting"? Who has Zeiss insulted? Is it getting personal? > > "A dozen questionalble affirmations"? (I assume you mean assertions.) I > dare > you to name even half a dozen. The very first thing you see: LIMITED EDITION: RESERVE YOUR PASSION. (this is the name of the click area) So when I want to order my back from the dead Zeiss Ikon camera I click on the "RESERVE YOUR PASSION" button. This is laying it 3 or 4 inches a bit thicker than I've ever really seen before from the typical hype department. I clicked the button. It got me to the next page. Where it said, now defining "LIMITED EDITION" "The first 1,200 Zeiss Ikon rangefinder cameras sold will feature a special insignia and come with a handsomely designed camera case." So the cameras you thought would unfortunately be made as a limited edition. A collectors not a shooter kind of thing. But no its only the first ones with the fancy add ons. The special insignia and the fancy case. So right off the bat first thing they are throwing you a curve ball. The very first page under "system" http://www.zeissikon.com/system.htm "We decided to design our own camera body because other cameras simply cannot match the performance standards of our lenses." This sure sounds like a real stupid put down of Leica. Like Leica is going to screw up the bodies for their lenses like Hasselblad and Rollei would not? The joke is on their marketing department if they think that anyone thinks that Leicas tolerances are lesser then their own. Or Hasselblads or Rollei's. Leica quality (tolerances) is widely perceived as being at least as good if not better then just about anybodies. But its ok to have Cosina make their lenses. This kind of slopping hyping just puts a question on their whole project. This should have been directed specifically at Cosina. They would somehow justify here that they can trust Cosina to make their lenses but not their camera body. As if Cosina could get the tolerances right on the glass but not on a body. Which of course makes no sense so it is made vague to direct it more at Leica. And not throw a question on the people who will be making 90 percent of the systems lenses. Me I'd rather Cosina made the body but they let the glass be made really by Zeiss in Germany. B.D. The name of the thing is not the thing. Leica we've seen Leica pretty much altogether stop making that mistake since I've been on the lug the last 5 or so years. Portugal, Canada and Minolta are all in the past. Leica realized that to sell cameras it needed to reclaim it's integrity. People were not going to shell out the bucks to by fake Leicas. So it was ordained that Solms would be making all Leicas for now on. I think it was good for business. Without it Leica would have croaked. You are I can give this or that person the right to crank out B. D. Colen or Mark Rabiner photographs but the people who are paying know if they want a photograph by us they are going to have to have us standing there framing the shot and releasing the shutter button. Not some student or assistant. No one thinks Zeiss made in Japan is in the same league as Zeiss made by Zeiss. Zeiss can bless and anoint them with any compound they want. Just hold one in each hand to assess the build and design. And look at the prices. Zeiss made in Japan is smoke and mirrors and painted on numbers. We have no idea what " Zeiss made in Japan" means. They sent over a lens design? They SPECIFIED glass? They SUPPLIED the glass? Its Japanese glass but really a Zeiss design? Partially assembled by Zeiss but finished over there in Japan? Or the reverse? The Japanese and everybody else had been copying Zeiss designs for over a hundred years so what's new, the Zeiss logo? "Tessar T*" instead of Scopar or Anastigmat or ? You wanna come out with a lens? Whip out the Zeiss designs and start working! Do they have a real German guy with a monocle yelling at all the Japanese people to get their act together and churn out hundred dollar optics to Zeiss 1000 dollar specs? Or is it the Japanese doing the yelling for good reason? It would be nice if Zeiss made in Japan brought out the best of Zeiss German and Japanese lens design and manufacture. The Germans can and do learn plenty from the Japanese optical industry not just the reverse. But plenty think Zeiss made in Japan does not represent the best of Zeiss and the Japanese company who has licensed the name or design or whatever. But darn close to the worst. Most of the Zeiss made in Japan stuff I've seen looks and feels crummy to me. I'd take Nikon over it any day. I'd take CANON! Over it any day! But hold a real Zeiss made lens in your hand and ask yourself what compares to it that is made in Japan. Almost anything you'd put next to it looks like junk in comparison. The results image wise you'd get from it of course would be far better than its look and build would lead you to think. But I think a real Zeiss lens just reeks with quality. The design and build of Japanese glass various tremendously. Nikon and Canon is making impressive stuff. Much of it impressive and gorgeous. About the bottom of the barrel lately I've seen is the Kyocera Contax stuff which is Zeiss made in Japan. Painted on numbers. Makes a 88 dollar Tamron look like a class item. I think the design and build of most Cosina glass, the CV stuff lags a full step behind Nikon and Canon. Sometimes more sometimes less. The 45 they make with the Nikon name on it an exception. I have a feeling there are others. The 12 seems to be pretty solid. > 80 mm medium format lens? 40 mm lens from the Rollei 35S? What the heck do > either of these have to do with Zeiss Ikon - or Zeiss itself for that > matter? > Please, if you're going to criticize Zeiss for misrepresentations, clean up > your own misrepresentations first. I think to know if I was misrepresenting Rollei you'd have to be a bit more up on it first. While in the last very few years Rollei has not been using Zeiss 80's and 40's or anything else but making their own Rolleinar or whatever they call their own glass the bulk of what is out there was made by Zeiss. While modern HFT coated Rolleinar stuff is said to really give the older Zeiss T* and Schneider stuff a run for their money all the top people you hear of like Avedon and Penn and you name it who use Rollei - it's always Zeiss. Or maybe Schneider. They're not using the brand new stuff. Part of the problem is that the new Rolleiflexes are made on cheaper bodies which don't for instance have a 220 option or automatic loading. The cheaper model was the only tooling that had left when they came back from the dead. Three times back. Basally when most people think of shooting with a Rollei they think of shooting with Zeiss. With a Schneider option. Mark Rabiner Photography Portland Oregon http://rabinergroup.com/