Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/10/15
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]You wrote: . I, for instance, love the look of Tri-X exposed at 800 iso; many other people may abhor that look, preferring the slowest, finest grain film they can obtain. It's all a matter of taste Well, me too!!!, but on some situations as landscape I prefer finest grain, but now I never do landscapes.... Good night, in Spain is 01,26 a.m. Best wishes Luis -----Mensaje original----- De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org]En nombre de B. D. Colen Enviado el: sabado, 16 de octubre de 2004 1:06 Para: 'Leica Users Group' Asunto: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" I understand what you're saying, Luis. But the irony is that virtually none of us can begin to take advantage of the capabilities of our Leica optics, particularly if they're the latest generation of lenses, and if we're shooting hand-held, which is what our Leicas were designed for. The reality is that other manufacturers make lenses that will get us images that are just as good as the images our Leica lenses will get us. We make like the particular fingerprint of a given Leica lens, rather than that of another manufacturer's lens, but that's a matter more of taste than optics. But you're of course right...all of this comes down to a matter of taste, age, background, and any number of personal factors. I, for instance, love the look of Tri-X exposed at 800 iso; many other people may abhor that look, preferring the slowest, finest grain film they can obtain. It's all a matter of taste. Best wishes B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Luis Ripoll Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 4:46 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" Well, I'm sure you are right, and that I've said is under a "romantic" position; absolutely true, the important are the images, but we, the Leica lovers, we are also in love with our instrument and the lens capabilities, why discuss about the perfection of a lens if even if someone have the better lens of the world this doesn't imply take good pictures. Well, maybe the photographers of our generation we are still... romantic, idealists, we like or we prefer the difficult manner to act in front of the easy modern manner..., probably all these things have produced the magical concept of the photography, probably if HCB has had an automatic camera nobody has appreciated his pictures and create the history of a myth. In other sense, when the TV is coming the great films, directors, has finished, look Frank Capra, Howard Hawks, Orson Welles, Fritz Lang, John Ford, Houston, Hichtckok..... and many, many others ..... We have a lot of TV films but not more the classical qualities. What is the best? It depends of our personal taste, education, experience, age ..... etc... Best Luis -----Mensaje original----- De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org]En nombre de B. D. Colen Enviado el: viernes, 15 de octubre de 2004 22:22 Para: 'Leica Users Group' Asunto: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" Well, Luis, in a very few short years digital as a photo capture medium has gone from being an ugly joke to equaling the quality of many 35 mm films. It's quite likely that in the next few years digital will exceed 35 mm film in quality - and it really should be noted here that the very same things you and some others say about the quality of digital was said about the quality of 35 mm film in comparison to the capture media that preceded it. ;-) As to the mechanical quality v. electronics...Yes, cameras like traditional Ms really are beautiful objects. But is photography about the beauty of the box that holds the film or CCD, or is it about the beauty of the image produced by the photographer? I, for one, certainly want to shoot with a solid, well made camera, but I am far more interested in the images I produce than I am in the beauty of the box in which I captured them. I will say, though I'm sure few on the list will believe me, that I would be just as happy if someone announced tomorrow that digital capture was some sort of gigantic joke, and we all went back to film. I like film, and I like the cameras in which I use film. But that said, I have recognized for several years that digital is not a gigantic joke - it is very real, and very effective. And it is replacing film just as film replaced glass plates. There is no turning back. There are still people today in "advanced" nations who ride in horsedrawn buggies; I have no doubt that for many years to come there will be people who will eschew digital capture for film, people who will go to their graves muttering about the evils of digital. Best B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Luis Ripoll Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 4:01 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" Up to my personal knowing, I have not yet see that digital quality is better than film. Secondly, a Leica M will be for me as a old watch Pathek Philippe or other, mechanical is for my mentality for the life, and always a value. Digital is electronic, batteries, plastic, technology...., two years and has no value. Why we need a digital?, which are the reasons? Comfort, economy of film?.... , we will expense much more with evolution of the technology. Luis -----Mensaje original----- De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org]En nombre de B. D. Colen Enviado el: viernes, 15 de octubre de 2004 21:23 Para: 'Leica Users Group' Asunto: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" And what are the advantages of the film M that a well designed and manufactured digital M would lack - other than film? -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Luis Ripoll (Of) Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 3:11 PM To: 'Leica Users Group' Subject: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" For me and very probably for much of us is no important a M digital, personally I don't need, neither I wan't it; up to this moment UI can't imagine a M digital with all the advantages of the actual. For me digital was initially a fashion, now is very probably - unfortunately - at least for me, the future. When I was young I maked films as amateur in 8 mm, the Super 8 was no so gut, neither the equipments, neither the film, after went the video. I've never do, neither used a video camera, I've finish doing movies a lot of years ago. I hope that when this arrive with the photography I'll be to old. Saludos desde Barcelona Luis -----Mensaje original----- De: lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+luisripoll=telefonica.net@leica-users.org] En nombre de B. D. Colen Enviado el: viernes, 15 de octubre de 2004 20:52 Para: 'Leica Users Group' Asunto: RE: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" Sorry, Feli - This has nothing to do with 'stiff upper lip,' because while I think it would be sad, from an historical perspective, to see Leica go belly up, I have no real emotional investment - and no financial investment - in what happens to the company. I'm just trying to inject what I view as a bit of realism into this endless discussion about nothing. Keep in mind - First Lecia said it couldn't be done. Then, the nano-second that Epson announced that they had done it, Leica announced that it was launching a digital M project.;-) Now comes the digital back - not full frame - for a camera system that has been a loss leader for Leica for some time. And now we're talking about whether there will be a full-frame Leica M after the cropped Leica M? I think the more relevant question might be how many of us will live to see Leica produce a digital M, and/or will Leica live to produce a digital M. Or will Leica die, or be bought up by another company, and sell its lenses to the people who buy a Zeiss digital "M." (And I am inclined to believe that we will see a digital M camera from Zeiss before we see one from Leica, but I could certainly be as wrong about that as the people who said we'd never see any digital M camera, or, for that matter, the people who as recently as 9-12 months ago were telling us that digital was just a passing fancy. ;-) B. D. -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of feli Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 2:35 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] Digital "crop factor" Oh, B.D. come one now. Where's that stiff upper lip? ;-) Let's see what happens and hope for the best. If it blows up in our face, we'll have plenty of time to bitch about it. Besides, someone will probably swoop in and buy them if the shit really hits the fan. Feli On Oct 15, 2004, at 11:08 AM, B. D. Colen wrote: > I wouldn't bet on anything "down the road," Feli. Face it, most of the > market for the digital M is going to be the amateur/hobbiest market, > and how many people in that category are going to pay $5000 to $7000K > for a > 1.33 crop digital M and then turn around and pay $10K later on for a > full-frame model? Damn few. And if people don't buy the 1.33 crop model > - assuming there is one, thinking they're going to wait for the full > frame model, Leica will go belly up while people wait. > > BTW - Where is the digital back for the R? Does anyone have an arrival > date? > > B. D. ________________________________________________________ feli2@earthlink.net www.elanphotos.com _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information