Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/09/24

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Subject: [Leica] new 1ds mark II
From: dorysrus at (Don Dory)
Date: Fri Sep 24 20:00:58 2004


You said, But what do I know? Much of the Leica attraction seems to be
its high cost and exclusivity....

I can not really agree with that.  In the very late sixties I was
seduced away from a fairly complete Canon outfit by a lone MP and DR.
In the early nineties I was seduced again by what is now a pretty
complete M and R kit.  It has nothing to do with price or exclusivity, I
tend to buy battered and very cheap, and everything to do with the fact
that the Leica tools let me take the images that I want to take.  I
still have the Canon stuff, have the Hassy stuff, even acquired some
Nikon stuff for specific lenses.  What I come back to is the Leica stuff
as it works better for me as a tool.

I have even taken the advice of Dr. Blacktape and hidden all the red

YMMV of course.


-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf
Of B. D. Colen
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 3:30 PM
To: 'Leica Users Group'
Subject: RE: [Leica] new 1ds mark II

Good points, Nathan. Although I think there should always be at least
some sort of bang for the buck equation. With the film cameras one can
make the argument that, as you say, they are built for the ages.
Certainly that is the case with the Ms, and given the number of still
functioning early flexes and Rs one sees for sale, it seems to be the
same for those cameras as well. Of course even with the longevity
factor, the stuff is all still over priced, but one enters Leica World
understanding that.

But I think that in this digital age the pricing question/justification
becomes ever more stark because of how far behind the curve Leica has
started; given what a limited offering the Rdigi is in terms of modern
features; and given what most of you say is the limited life-span of any
digital camera because of constant technology improvement.

Sorry, Juan, but the pricing of the Digi back makes even less sense than
the usual Leica pricing, rather than more, because for the price of the
Leica back, one can buy a complete Canon EOS 1D MarkII - the entire
camera body, 8 mpg sensor, with all the bells and whistles. While one
may not want all the bells and whistles, one does have to wonder what is
so stunningly spectacular about the Digi back that it justifies the
price of a top of the line camera body. 

I realize that there are development costs, etc. But I wonder...What do
you suppose would happen if Leica offered that back at cost? That's
right - at cost? Let's suppose that the back COSTS $1500 to produce.
Suppose they sold it for $1500, which would allow any Leica R owner to
get into high quality digital for $1500. And would allow anyone else to
get into high quality digital AND Leica for the $1500 plus the cost of a
used R8...How many R bodies would Leica then sell? How many R lenses?
I'm no business man, but I'll bet they would make allot more money in
the long run selling that thing at cost, bringing new Leicaphiles into
the Leicatent  than they'll ever make selling it at 4K plus...

But what do I know? Much of the Leica attraction seems to be its high
cost and exclusivity....

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of
Nathan Wajsman
Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 4:04 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] new 1ds mark II

Juan Gea-Banacloche wrote:

> What baffles me is the pervasive comparison between Leica and Canon &
> Nikon in terms of bang for the buck. Has Leica ever been "competitive"

> (value for money) in the SLR arena? My impression is that they stopped

> even trying decades ago. Don't get me wrong, the R8 and R9 may be 
> absolutely wonderful machines, but do they offer more features (for a 
> similar cost) than the flagship Nikon or Canon? In this context, the 
> pricing of the Digital Module seems quite standard for the company (or

> even less disproportionate than usual).

The difference is that in the analog world, Leica can credibly make the 
claim that its cameras are in a class of their own, designed to last a 
lifetime. This is amply demonstrated by the number of Leicaflexes, M3s 
and LTMs still in use among members of this group, and I have no doubt 
that current M6s will prove equally durable. However, when Leica enters 
the digital arena, no such claim can be made, and so a comparison to 
other makers of digital cameras is much more relevant.

Nathan Wajsman
Almere, The Netherlands

General photography:
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Replies: Reply from bdcolen at (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] new 1ds mark II)
In reply to: Message from bdcolen at (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] new 1ds mark II)