Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/07/02

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Subject: [Leica] Why I haven't entered photo contests
From: bdcolen at (B. D. Colen)
Date: Fri Jul 2 06:55:35 2004

The one thing I would point out about that BBC agreement is that it is
saying that if the BBC invites you to contribute something - not if the
BBC buys something - and you do so, you are giving them all rights to
your contribution. And they clearly say, if you don't like the rules,
don't play the game.

The reactionaries on the list will be stunned to learn that I really
don't have a problem with what the BBC is doing in this case; benefiting
themselves at the same time they are giving unknowns a chance to become
known. Would it be 'fairer' if they paid, or if they only asked for a
non-exclusive license? Absolutely. But as we all know, the times they
are a changin' - and they aren't changin' for the better for artists of
any kind.
On the other hand, I find the current freelance contracts and payments
being offered by big media companies and photo agencies truly outrageous
- because there we have rich commercial enterprises ripping off the
people who make their profits possible.

-----Original Message-----
[] On Behalf Of
Greg Locke
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:36 AM
To: 'Leica Users Group'
Subject: RE: [Leica] Why I haven't entered photo contests

On the Canadian pro photo list there has been a discussion over a
contest being held by Heritage Canada ...A GOVERNMENT AGENCY  ...with
much the same terms.

It's little more than a government weasel figuring out how to build a
stock photo library for free.

Most pro's would never enter but there are thousands of pretty good
amateurs who would because A/ they don't understand the ramifications or
B/ They are just happy to get their pictrures in print.

The volumn of entries means you are assure to get a decent collection.

Pretty disgusting, EH!!!??  (a Canadian expression for non-residents on
Canada Day)

Greg Locke
St. John's, Newfoundland

 ----JUST RELEASED-------
NEWFOUNDLAND ...journey into a lost nation
by Greg Locke and Michael Crummey
McClelland and Stewart
ISBN # 0-7710-6142-0 

> -----Original Message-----
> From:
> [] On 
> Behalf Of Peter Klein
> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 12:32 AM
> To:
> Subject: [Leica] Why I haven't entered photo contests
> A link to a BBC photo contest was posted on another list.  I
> took a look. 
> They referred interested photographers to their terms and 
> conditions.  Check this out.  The relevant stuff is in Items 9 and 10:
> This is from the BBC, who I believe has historically been
> relatively good to creative people.  You must give them all 
> rights to all possible versions and derivations of the work 
> in every possible medium forever. At least they only want 
> non-exclusive rights, so you can still  sell the image to 
> someone else at a later date (if I understand the legalese 
> correctly).  But it is galling to think that this is the 
> price you pay for just submitting the image, whether you win 
> or not, and whether they use it now or not.
> I've read contest rules in the U.S. where in addition to all
> of the above, they demand *exclusive* rights.  Once you 
> submit the image, you can never use it again.
> If this is the current standard, I wonder why anyone bothers
> to enter these things at all.  It sounds like it's derived 
> from the "work for hire, sign away all rights or you don't 
> work" school of freelancer contracts.  I almost think one 
> would get a better deal from old-school organized crime.
> --Peter
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See for more information

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Replies: Reply from n.wajsman at (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] Why I haven't entered photo contests)
Reply from pdzwig at (Peter Dzwig) ([Leica] Why I haven't entered photo contests)
Reply from timatherton at (Tim Atherton) ([Leica] Show Us Your Canada competition (Was- Why I haven't entered photo contests))
In reply to: Message from locke at (Greg Locke) ([Leica] Why I haven't entered photo contests)