Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/02/27

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Subject: Re: [Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter
From: Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:35:20 -0800
References: <20040227121102.71928.qmail@web60401.mail.yahoo.com> <403F61C8.E09C84AF@pacbell.net> <004801c3fd4a$40b33740$dc645618@vc.shawcable.net> <403F6BAC.5ED036B@pacbell.net> <6E36CE74-6959-11D8-A6B3-000A95798CF8@cwazy.co.uk>

Jeez,

Well, it does tell us not to try to cheat the buyer, but we should know
that anyway.  At least I do.

Jerry

sdp35 wrote:

> Because it lets us know at least one side of the story so that it
> doesn't appear to be a load of piss, bluster and plain old sour grapes?
>
> Or would you have preferred something like, "I got ripped off but I'll
> spare you the gory details."  Or would you have preferred he name names
> immediately instead of being diplomatic?
>
> Jeez.
>
> Brian, Joe and others have been exactly spot on with their assessment
> of how this was handled by Mark.
>
> On Feb 27, 2004, at 11:09 AM, Jerry Lehrer wrote:
>
> > Joe
> >
> > Yes, but why tell us about his private negotiations unless it could
> > help us?  How could it help us?
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > Joe Leung wrote:
> >
> >> Jerry,
> >>
> >> I think Mark is very kind. He tried to send a warning to the seller
> >> and to
> >> give him a final chance to resolve the matter privately before
> >> exposing his
> >> identity. I hope the seller will do something about it before it's
> >> too late.
> >>
> >> Good luck Mark.
> >>
> >> Joe L.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Jerry Lehrer" <jerryleh@pacbell.net>
> >> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> >> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 7:27 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter
> >>
> >>> Mark
> >>>
> >>> Since you have withheld the sellers name, your message does
> >>> not prevent any of us from falling into a similar trap from the
> >>> same seller.
> >>>
> >>> Otherwise, why send an "open letter"?
> >>>
> >>> Jerry
> >>>
> >>> Mark Theken wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Over the past two years, I have made many mutually
> >>>> beneficial transactions with LUG participants.  I
> >>>> deeply regret the necessity to post this message
> >>>> regarding a recent transaction.  The seller, by
> >>>> refusing to respond to my correspondence, has given me
> >>>> no alternative to seek the refund I have requested
> >>>> over the past 2 weeks.
> >>>> Dear XXXXXXX:
> >>>> I am requesting that you acknowledge the sale and
> >>>> guarantee of originality of black paint M3 # 993XXX
> >>>> which I received from you on 2/6/2004.  I contacted
> >>>> you immediately after receiving this camera and
> >>>> politely stated my concerns regarding the authenticity
> >>>> of this camera.  The documentation you claimed prior
> >>>> to the sale was unavailable.  Because you were unable
> >>>> to provide copies of this documentation, I politely
> >>>> requested that you accept the return of this camera
> >>>> and refund the purchase price.  You responded with a
> >>>> refusal to discuss this transaction any further.
> >>>> Curiously, you also ignored my request to provide a
> >>>> sales receipt for this mail order transaction.
> >>>> Regardless, I have copies of the bank draft, made
> >>>> payable to you, in the amount of USD $6225.
> >>>> Based upon your claim of expertise in authenticating
> >>>> rare Leica cameras, I made the good faith and sight
> >>>> unseen purchase of this camera which you listed for
> >>>> sale on the LUG website.  It has since been
> >>>> established by three internationally recognized Leica
> >>>> collectors that this camera was altered from the
> >>>> original 1960 production at some point in time.  That
> >>>> message was forwarded to you 2/20/2004.   Based upon
> >>>> this information, two possibilities exist.
> >>>> 1-Your representation of the authenticity and
> >>>> guarantee of originality of black paint M3 # 993XXX
> >>>> was erroneous.
> >>>> 2-You were aware that this camera had been altered
> >>>> since the original production in 1960.  Your refusal
> >>>> to respond to any of my correspondence about this
> >>>> transaction makes this very disturbing to me.
> >>>> You stated in our correspondence that this camera has
> >>>> a value of two times the price that I paid.  In
> >>>> reality, the value is more likely 50% of the price I
> >>>> paid.  If you are convinced that the value of the
> >>>> camera is as you have stated, reversing this
> >>>> transaction should be a very simple economic decision
> >>>> for you.
> >>>> As I stated in my previous messages to you, by
> >>>> returning the purchase amount of USD $6225 to attorney
> >>>> Alfred Wolsky in Arlington, MA, we can both walk away
> >>>> from this transaction undamaged.  Mr. Wolsky, the
> >>>> Legal Officer of the LHSA, has graciously agreed at my
> >>>> request to act as an escrow agent.  He will hold the
> >>>> camera to be returned to you by whatever arrangements
> >>>> you make with him.   In that event, I am willing to
> >>>> accept that the first possibility listed above is
> >>>> correct.  I think we both will sleep much better with
> >>>> that conclusion to this matter.
> >>>> Your frequent posts to the LUG over the past two years
> >>>> have stated your expectation of a high level of
> >>>> integrity from LUG participants.  It is now time for
> >>>> you to act as you expect others to.  It is not my
> >>>> intention to impeach your expertise, integrity or
> >>>> standing within the LUG or LHSA community in any way.
> >>>>
> >>>> I feel it is in our mutual best interest for you to
> >>>> respond to this request immediately.
> >>>> Sincerely,
> >>>> Mark Theken
> >>>> telephone:  330-494-3552
> >>>> marktheken@yahoo.com
> >>>>
> >>>> __________________________________
> >>>> Do you Yahoo!?
> >>>> Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
> >>>> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
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> >>>
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> >>
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> >
>
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In reply to: Message from Mark Theken <marktheken@yahoo.com> ([Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter)
Message from Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net> (Re: [Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter)
Message from Joe Leung <jcyleung8@shaw.ca> (Re: [Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter)
Message from Jerry Lehrer <jerryleh@pacbell.net> (Re: [Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter)
Message from sdp35 <sdp35@cwazy.co.uk> (Re: [Leica] FS: Buyer Beware! an open letter)