Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/02/16

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Oh god please no! Not DOF again
From: JCB <jcb@visualimpressions.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:01:17 -0800
References: <47A5E9D4-60DD-11D8-AAF0-0050E42E6E0B@shaw.ca> <47A5E9D4-60DD-11D8-AAF0-0050E42E6E0B@shaw.ca>

At 04:16 PM 2/16/2004 -0800, you wrote:

>I promise that I'll get the LUG archives search engine working again, soon.


Too late!

So to add to John Collier's truth, here's my DOF treatise, more than you 
wanted to know!

COC = Circle Of Confusion
Image Size = magnification

For a given COC, a 50mm lens 10 feet away from the subject has the EXACT 
SAME DOF as a 100mm lens 20 feet away from the subject. A 50mm lens at 
f/1.4 focused at 10 feet has from 9'7" to 10'5" in focus. A 100mm lens at 
f/1.4 focused at 20 feet (exact same image size on the film as the 50mm 
example), the DOF is from 19'7" to 20'5". The depth of field is EXACTLY the 
same. EXACTLY 10 INCHES IN BOTH CASES for the given COC.

DOF has EVERYTHING to do with IMAGE SIZE (magnification,) which is a 
combination of the focal length you are using AND how far away you are from 
the subject. If the "image size" is the same, the DOF is the same for a 
given f/stop, REGARDLESS OF FOCAL LENGTH and REGARDLESS OF THE FILM SIZE.

This is a simple fact.

*** MORE ***

Depth Of Field is a function of f/stop and image size. An 80mm lens on a 
4X5 has precisely the same DOF as an 80mm lens on a Hasselblad, which has 
exactly the same DOF as an 80mm lens on a Leica, in every situation. One 
does not give less or more DOF than the other. Take two Hasselblads, one 
with an 80mm lens, the other with a 160mm lens. Take the 160mm Hasselblad 
exactly twice the distance from the subject as
the 80mm Hasselblad is (this will make the photographed image - its size - 
on the film exactly the same for both cameras) and the DOF in the image in 
both cameras, at exactly the same f/stops, will be exactly the same. 
Conversely, if you photograph with the 80 and 160 from exactly the same 
distance and f/stop, the DOF in the 160 image will be considerable less 
than the DOF in the 80 image. The 160 image size will be twice as large as 
the 80 image as well.

One manufacturers 80mm lens has the same optical characteristics as any 
other manufacturers 80mm lens. Or 100mm lenses, or 150mm lenses. It's not a 
function of manufacturer or film size, it is the function of image size and 
f/stop. It is the law of optical physics. There are a few minute fudge 
factors here but are totally insignificant.

An 80mm lens on a 35mm camera has the same DOF as an 80mm lens on a 6x6 
camera which has the same DOF as an 80mm lens on a 4x5 camera which has the 
same DOF as an 80mm lens on a digital camera. Regardless of film size 
actually used.

The 6x6 and 4x5 80mm has more "coverage" than the 35mm format, but the 
image size - magnification  (regardless of the film size) is identical, 
therefore the DOF is identical.

What f/stop you use and where you focus in your scene will determine how 
much is in focus. From the exact point of focus, DOF extends 1/3 forward 
(toward the camera) and 2/3 back (away from the camera). If you photograph 
a persons face, at wide open (f/2.8 or f/3.5) and focus on their eyes, 
there is a good chance that the end of their nose will be out of focus. If, 
however, you focus on the tip of their nose, their eyes will probably be in 
focus. Except for perhaps Pinocchio. As you stop down, more comes into 
acceptable focus, increasing 1/3 front and 2/3 back. Back DOF increases 
twice as fast as front DOF.

And John Collier is, of course, correct. It is all visually relative to the 
sharpness of your lens and sharpness of your film. Old time cameras, cheap 
P&S cameras, etc, all seem to exhibit a greater DOF than does a good Leica 
and a Summicron. It is because the old and cheap bad lenses limit your 
ability to determine where the sharpness boundary is. Sharp lenses give a 
clear delineation of where this boundary is. The DOF scales on good modern 
lenses are about two stops off. Lenses and films are much better than when 
these scales were devised. Shoot at f/16, read the scales for f/8. The same 
goes for hyperfocal charts.

Digital sensors.... they're another story.

JB


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Replies: Reply from Jim Hemenway <Jim@hemenway.com> (Re: [Leica] Re: Oh god please no! Not DOF again)
In reply to: Message from John Collier <jbcollier@shaw.ca> ([Leica] Oh god please no! Not DOF again)
Message from John Collier <jbcollier@shaw.ca> ([Leica] Oh god please no! Not DOF again)