Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/02/16

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Subject: RE: digital lenses was: Re: [Leica] Digital Bessa RF
From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:36:44 -0500

Actually, someone has done such film to mgp approximations and come up
with, among other things, the fact that at between 5-6 mgp you get
results equal to that of 35 mm tri-x. Which is all I care about. ;-)

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
[mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jonathan
Borden
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 4:07 PM
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: digital lenses was: Re: [Leica] Digital Bessa RF


Feli di Giorgio wrote:

>On Mon, 2004-02-16 at 03:00, frank.dernie@btinternet.com wrote:
>  
>
>>The problem is, Jim, that we do not need film dimension to match film 
>>quality,  digital sensors about 1/4 the size of Minox film match 35mm 
>>P&S quality. We  only need a full size sensor to utilise the full 
>>angle of view of our existing  35mm design lenses
>>    
>>
It is a mistake to assume that an optimal 35 mm lens (e.g. "M" series) 
will be optimal for a smaller imaging area. Consider state of the art LF

lenses e.g. the Schneider Symmar XL 150mm f5.6 which covers 8x10" -- I 
don't see people clamoring to use this in 35mm -- indeed it would be a 
rather mediocre lens even though its sweet central spot covers > the 
35mm film area.

The issue is that optimizing a lens for 8x10 is much different than 
optimizing a lens for 35mm or a smaller area.

>Frank
>
>That may be true, but I really detest the increase in DOF you get with 
>the 1.5 multiplication factor.
>
>  
>
I believe the actual DOF is related to the F stop and focal length -- 
you mean the *apparent* increase in DOF. The way to correct for that 
would be to use a wider F stop. Indeed for a lens optimized to a smaller

imaging area you should be able to use a wider maximal F stop. All else 
being equal such a lens should also have a *high* resolving power in
lpmm.

The question has arisen as to how many pixels are needed to approximate 
35mm film. Assume 75 lpmm that would be approximately 2000 lines x 
2000lines or at least 2 pixels/line = 16 megapixels. Now if your lens is

not good, or your focus is off or your hands shake etc, you need less 
pixels -- and also remember that there isn't necessarily a 1:2 
correlation between lines and pixels (for example it is widely 
acknowledged that a digital CD recording at 44 khz cannot truly 
reproduce an analog recording even though the human ear cannot hear > 20

khz) i.e. you probably should have more pixels to capture all the 
information.

In any case this is a back of the napkin approximation that tells us 
that a good 5 megapixel sensor is not enough to equal good 35mm film 
given a high quality lens. The 75 LPmm is for Provia F 100 slide film --

for Tech Pan and on a tripod, you are going to need many more
megapixels.

Jonathan
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Replies: Reply from "animal" <s.jessurun95@chello.nl> (Re: digital lenses was: Re: [Leica] Digital Bessa RF)
Reply from Jonathan Borden <jonathan@openhealth.org> (Re: digital lenses was: Re: [Leica] Digital Bessa RF)