Re: [Leica] re: The Decisive Moment is gone

[Ted Grant <tedgrant@shaw.ca>]

From: "John Collier"
>>> BUT I also feel if someone implies that their photography is more
> honest than another's, they had better be prepared to back it up.<<<<<

Well the problem as I see it developed beyond what it started out to be and
that was, "is setting-up a shot and then calling it photojournalism right or
wrong?" Basic question should have simple answer.

Then it began broadening out with all kinds of other elements, which of
course
happens on a list like the LUG.

I understand how Tina feels and I know without question how she works and
it's all by visual motivation of the moment without her suggesting anyone
stand in a doorway or sit by the fire or whatever. And because something
might happen later, but she wouldn't be there, she wouldn't ask that it be
done "now" instead of missing it. If she doesn't see it, a picture, then
there isn't
anything there.

And she's worked in that honest fashion as a photojournalist for years, as
have I.

Rob on the other hand usually has a tight time schedule not allowing for
"wait time" or return later time and asks to have something done that will
take place later.  I don't have a problem with this because he's not setting
up a "fictional situation," it's merely a post-enactment of what will
happen. This kind of situation occurs all the time and it's not the big deal
it appears to be. As long as it's what is done and not some pie in the sky
"idea"  the photographer has in his or her mind. A creation of what the
photographer thinks looks good but it isn't real. That in my book is right
out cheating and lying.

When I had an assignment to do a several months documentary on the
automotive
industry of Canada I began shooting at a GM plant for 6 week right at the
opening door of where it all begins and virtually shot my way every inch of
the way from start to rolling out the plant and loaded to rail cars and
truck transporters.

And when GM was done I moved onto another manufacturer and started all over
again for another 6 weeks and so on.

It was the nuances of assembly and people that motivated me and I never said
a word to anyone. I never asked anyone to do it over or anything, as I had
carte blanche to do what I wanted and go where I wanted. And not one iota of
posing or setting up of one single moment!

Did I miss some things? Sure, but you wait because the next opportunity may
or may not be ten times better than the one you missed. It's seeing
something and shoot, but the worker is too quick or I was too slow and it's
missed, so you watch and wait and "you better not miss it the next time!"
However, knowing he's going to do it another hundred times during the
day..... "You never ever ever ask him to do it again for the camera because
you missed it!"  Because that's cheating! Whether some may think so or not.

Actually these type of documentaries were a great opportunity to master ones
skills with complete open access, that probably wouldn't happen these days.
But not one single frame was due to any intervention or asking to have
anything changed or moved.

The problem with some of these chaps on the LUG is, they offer an opinion
when they've "never ever done a major documentary in serious fashion over a
period of months or years" where you literally do nothing but look for
photogenic moments within the parameters of the project and still tell an
absolutely visually honest documentary. Where one's philosophies of life
have little meaning because all you're doing is photographing people doing
something without you telling them what do.

And it's your honest "photo eye" that makes it good, bad or ugly! Not
inexperienced opinions!

We were absolutely forbidden to do anything to create a photo situation and
every single exposure was real time life as is, you wouldn't even entertain
the thought, "gee that would be great if that guy were only"........
And if for a moment I thought it, I dismissed it quicker!

And moved on looking for something more motivating. Or waited to see if it
happened.

These documentaries were about Canada and the people who worked in every
conceivable profession and trade you can imagine, so it was worth your job
if you screwed around "cheating" no matter how good you were. All that was
necessary was for a question to be raised about something in a picture not
looking right and the photographer better have every honesty barrel loaded
in defense, other wise he probably lost his job. Or never did another
assignment for the department.

Anyway I don't think this topic solved anything as it's the usual question
seeking an answer, then clouds form on the horizon, the questions & answers
create bigger clouds, it builds to a thunder storm with flashes of word
lightening, some loud and raucous word thunder, then it blows itself out and
moves on.

No different than a mid-summer storm, interesting, but doesn't accomplish
anything! Only proves one more time it was / is, a topic for round table
discussion and not e-mailing.

ted










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