Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/09/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Nah..... here is how it is From: "bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> Subject: RE: [Leica] FOCUS GROUPS for LEICA/ HERMES > I'd suggest you lighten up, Jack - I posted what I hoped was a somewhat > pointed joke.. perhaps.. but it was not obviously a "joke". It looked far more a thinly veiled PC chastisement to me. >you responded by mocking the idea that it might be offense > to some folks...perhaps on this list. no, what I reacted to (mocking? my goodness, you have thin skin and a propensity for the inflammatory!) was yet another example of the PC erosion of the language; of being afraid of words. There is nothing wrong with the word "Oriental". Some one who lives in the Orient is an Oriental. Someone who lives in Asia is an Asian, someone who lives in Micronesia is a Micronesian, someone who lives in Argentina is an Argentinian.... get it? Simple. There is no value other than geography weighing these words. I suppose - since you point it out - that some on this list (and I assume you are referring to Asians/Orientals, but I will be far broader in scope since I believe all should be treated equally without consideration of their race or location on this planet and that they dont need my unasked for protection from the printed word... and also assuming that these folks have the intelligence and insight to realize when they have been insulted and when they have not), might be offended by nearly anything. I certainly didnt mock them, nor pander to them either, and I would argue the same point with anyone if it came up. Usually these things dont come up unless someone feels the need to mea culpa in public and demonstrate their heightened sensitivity and moral superiority. Summation: It's all in the context of what is said and how it's said; not in the word itself. > The fact that YOU don't equate it with the other nasty slurs is utterly > meaningless, as you are, as you say, an "Occidental." no, you are correct. I certainly dont equate "Oriental" with "nigger", "kike", (and possibly whatever epithet you were referring to re: the Irish). The equation of these loathful terms with "Oriental" is simply ridiculous. I sense that the vast reasonable majority dont either. If the original poster had used "gook", "Slanteye", or any other of the obvious slurs created to dehumanize Orientals I would have no problem with a correction being in order, no less than I feel that a correction is in order when raging PC over-reaction rears it's ugly head. >I can name many > people who wouldn't find any of the other slurs offensive either - and I > am NOT refering to anyone on this list.;-) end of the subject as far as I am concerned Jack McLain Tucson, AZ > B. D. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jack > McLain > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 5:09 PM > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > Subject: Re: [Leica] FOCUS GROUPS for LEICA/ HERMES > > > Oh please..... "Oriental" hardly equates with the other nasty slurs you > referenced, and inferring (if thats what you did), that I would use or > condone those universally loathed terms based on my response is way over > the top. "Oriental" may not be as modern or accurate as "Asian", but it > is hardly inherently a slur or derogatory. We have at worst a > generation gap here. There was nothing in the context of the earlier > post to assume otherwise. > > And for the record, I have no problem at all being referred to as an > "Occidental"..... > > lighten up > > Is the luxury train "Orient Express" still running? > > cheers > > Jack McLain > Tucson, AZ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 1:32 PM > Subject: RE: [Leica] FOCUS GROUPS for LEICA/ HERMES > > > > Actually, no, Jack - It's hardly new. I first heard it about a decade > > ago when an Asian student in a class at Harvard Medical School dropped > > > it on a prof who used "Orientals?" I wonder, would you say the same > > thing about the use of blacks or African Americans in place of n*****? > > > Or Jews, rather than k****? Or how about Irish, rather than h****? As > > you well know, the term harks back to the days when the sun never set > > on the British Empire. Why does using the factually correct term > > bother you? Can you show me a modern map of the world with the term > > "Orient" on it? Just wondering. > > > > B. D. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jack > > McLain > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 4:20 PM > > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > Subject: Re: [Leica] FOCUS GROUPS for LEICA/ HERMES > > > > > > oh... how darlingly PC > > > > I do hope you are only busting chops here > > > > Jack McLain > > Tucson, AZ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> > > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 12:20 PM > > Subject: RE: [Leica] FOCUS GROUPS for LEICA/ HERMES > > > > > > > "Orientals?" Carpets use cameras? You don't mean "Asians," do you? > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > > [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jerry > > > Lehrer > > > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 12:34 PM > > > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > > > Subject: [Leica] FOCUS GROUPS for LEICA/ HERMES > > > > > > > > > LUGers > > > > > > I have been berated off-list by quite a number of LUG members for > > > suggesting that very few of us would ever be chosen for the Hermes/ > > > Leica Focus Group. Even comments like (Focus?-Bofus?) Have some of > > > your racist friends explain that one. > > > > > > Lets face it Leica listens to a group of prestigious European and > > > Oriental photographers whose works are published as Leica users. > > > They probably laugh at most of us, who your fair-haired boy, HK, has > > > > defined as a bunch of fondles and worse. > > > > > > I may be wrong, but how many of you have been chosen for the Hermes/ > > > > Leica Focus Group? > > > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe, see > > > http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > > > > > -- > > > To unsubscribe, see > > > http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > -- > > To unsubscribe, see > > http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > > > -- > > To unsubscribe, see > > http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > -- > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > > -- > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html